para beret

[grip3846]

hear hear

I would be very cautious buying this beret as it is coming from UKM-sales website, Andy Beal runs the site and also UK-Militaria.

That is a very good reason to pass on it

[cw2311]

Hello all,

If I can add my two cents about this Canadian beret since someone sent me some extra pictures.

1. The leather binding is sewn over top of the liner which is wrong for factory war time production.

2. The grommet size is wrong. Grand Mere used a very distinct grommet which is much smaller than all the other standard Canadian and British makers. As well, they should be magnetic!

3. From the pictures, the liner material is the wrong weave or grain for that maker.

4. The yellow diamond in the liner is not stitched. In 1944, they did stitch the diamond. In 1945, they no longer stitched the diamond.

5. The leather over the grommet looks brown, it should be black and the stitching around the leather should be a nice clean zig zag machine stitch, NOT hand stitched!

6. I have never seen a yellow C broad arrow stamp, they have all been white or light blue in berets.

Very sorry,

Coogan

[zipper]

not strictly correct. allowing for the transition phase, 1944 berets can be found without the " diamond " reinforcing stitching . they can also be found with the larger non-ferrous grommets.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...al-corps-beret

[cw2311]

As far as a transition period, yes, I can agree to an overlap with the diamond stitch. That is no different than finding various letters above the WD stamp in the same year. As far as larger non magnetic grommets, I would have to say no sir, post war 100%. Grand Mere started using larger aluminum grommets post-war, in 1950. If you have such a beret, send me some pictures please as I am always interested in looking at other collections.

Thanks

[zipper]

an oppo of mine has a 1944 Grand'Mere cherry beret and it has brass grommets. it is the same as his other khaki versions and they are 100% original as well. obviously it is chalk and cheese compared with the beret that kicked off this thread. I have been looking through my archive hard drives to see if I have got a shot of it and the others but it would appear they may be in my old 35mm photos. just because an example has not been observed doesn't mean non-originality. going off on a tangent, years and years ago at a collectors antiques market I bought a Nazi Heer cold weather hat the likes I had never seen. on showing to contemporary collectors it was viewed with suspicion, ie duff. the thing screamed 100% right. years later in one of the Podzan Verlag series of books, lo and behold a picture of the offending hat in wear. off soapbox now.

[cw2311]

Please, send me some pictures of this beret as I would love to see it. I would prefer to hold it but, pictures will have to suffice.

I have handled a couple Canadian berets with brass grommets but unfortunately they have all been post-war put together berets. Grand Mere and Dorothea used stamp sheet metal throughout the war, and then they began using aluminum post-war.

The only other possible explanation is perhaps the grommets fell out and were later replaced with brass grommets.

At the end of the day, if your friend feels content with his beret, then that’s all that matters.

Cheers

[zipper]

from my recollection, because of the unissued condition of the beret, the grommets in question have not been replaced. what proof is available to categorically establish the fact that brass grommets were NOT fitted to Grand'Mere headware ? if I could prise it out of his hands I would be more than happy to own it. as they say " if thats duff I'll show my arse in Burton's wndow ". I can remember when I started out on this collection lunacy lark acquiring a SS officers aluminium buckle and brocade belt, the source on hindsight being undeniably good. a collector acquaintance came out with the statement that that the backing of the belt should be green and not black and that the manufacturers stamps on the rear of the buckle were not right. his statement was based on the fact that he had seen another , which was right ! and the one I had was different , ergo , wrong. despite reservations, disasterously for me , I was persuaded to part with it. heehaw ! pin the tail on the donkey, one of lifes many regrets.

[zipper]

P.S. always review post before submitting ! the put togethers you mention are probably the marriage between a Grand'Mere khaki beret and a British or whatever " Red Beret ", in an instant elevating the value of what someone may say to be an ordinary article to the esoteric. however, these bastardisations can be weeded out.

[cw2311]

Sir,

The “marriage” you speak of is exactly what a put-together beret is.… Sure, I imagine anything is possible if you want it to be. I was talking about textbook examples of one particular maker, not an anomaly.

The German references you mention are great but of no relevance to this topic. I have no interest in getting caught up in the game of who knows what. I gave my opinion on this particular beret that kicked off this post.

I’m always open to looking at other para beret examples to either validate or disprove my collection of data. Which is why I sent you my email address hoping that you would send me some pictures. Please, just post some pictures on the forum for all the Commonwealth collectors to make their decision. This forum has plenty of people with a wealth of knowledge and experience, each person bringing with them their field of expertise.

Cheers

[zipper]

just another way of promoting another point of view. one man's meat is another man's poison , fact is in there somewhere. photographs can go a long way in establishing fact, but you can't beat having an item in one's mitts .

[james west]

NO way ,all the negatives have been correctly stated here
I,m afraid this Contestant won,t be going through to the finals
Regards
JAMES

[zipper]

" If " Rudyard Kipling, 1895

[zipper]

on the cover of " Canuck " by Michael A. Doresh , there is an example of the pattern of beret that has no reinforcing stitching on the diamond and larger grommets.

[cw2311]

Still waiting to see those pictures!