Canadian badge ID help please

[Garth Thompson]

Picked up this badge at a local show this weekend and need some help identifying it. I know it is Victorian but don't know the unit or use. The size is approximately 3" x 3 1/2", a little large I would think for a visored cap. It is made in two seperate pieces.
I would appreciate any idea as to the badge's scarcity and/or value.
Thank you in advance,
Garth

[Garth Thompson]

The back

[peter monahan]

Garth

It is a Toronto Police Force badge, worn first on a 'bobby's helmet' - the one's which look like a pith helmet only in blue - and then on the peaked caps. I picked one up a few years ago for $10.00, which was really cheap but I have no idea what a police collector would pay for one.

Peter

[Garth Thompson]

Garth

It is a Toronto Police Force badge, worn first on a 'bobby's helmet' - the one's which look like a pith helmet only in blue - and then on the peaked caps. I picked one up a few years ago for $10.00, which was really cheap but I have no idea what a police collector would pay for one.

Peter

Peter,
Thanks for the assist.
Garth

[peter monahan]

Garth

I didn't include any dates but my recollection is 1890's to sometime in the '20s or '30s and I think they may even have kept the Victorian crown, though obviously it could be removed and presumably changed. The badges look sharp on the helmets but a bit over the top on a visor cap, however just 'too cool' not to wear until they wore out!

The Metro. Toronto force has a museum. In fact i think I may have sent them the badge I found [with a bunch of later period buttons] because it was of no real use to me. Wish I'd kept it now! The museum is open only on weekdays I think, so I've never been.

Peter

[peter monahan]

Garth

I think the badges were worn from 1790ish to after WWI, as they looked so sharp even on a peaked cap. I did some research, now gone, but my recollection is that I finally sent mine to the Toronto Police Museum [http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/museum/]. With a bunch of buttons, but those were modern. Sadly, the museum keeps banker's hours so i've never been and the web site has no pictures to speak of.

Peter

[peter monahan]

here's a photo from the National Archives of Canada of Toronto police in 1885. You can clealry see the large maple leaf badges, though these appear to be white/silver rather than dark. I will investigat further!

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...ResultCount=10)

[peter monahan]

here is the web-dress for a photo in the National Archives of Canada, taken in May 1883, of Toronto police constables. You can clearly see the large maple leaf badegs, though these appear light coloured. I will see what else I can find!

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_a...ResultCount=10)[/IMG]

[Garth Thompson]

Peter,
Thank you for your further efforts. I think the badge is actually a lighter color but has age tarnished. I will let the next owner do the cleaning if they so desire.
Garth

[peter monahan]

Peter,
I think the badge is actually a lighter color but has age tarnished.
Garth

My strong recollection of the badge I had was that it was copper painted black, which of course made the shiny silver beaver and crown stand out a treat, but if the black on yours is tarnish and it was meant to shine, perhaps its a variant or earlier or later than the one I had.

Peter

[Garth Thompson]

Peter,

Had a good look at the badge with a glass and it is just as you described. I can't tell wether the leaf is copper or not but it is black painted with the center piece being a tarnished nickle/silver.

Garth

[peter monahan]

Garth

I just found my badge and its twins! The first is like yours - black painted, embossed not cast, and the beaver is silver, but it has a King's crown. Alaso, the stem at the bottom is filled in inside the curve, so from a distance it would like like a sort of half moon shape.

The second badge is missing the devices. It was painted at one time but the paint has been removed [not just worn off] from the front, with just hints of it in some of the crevices around the veins on the leaf.

I also found my notes, cribbed from the collection of the late Larry Becker, a well known dealer and collector of Toronto memorabilia. His description of another version of the plate:

"Toronto Police Dept. Helmet Plate. Two piece bi-metal beaver with crown above, mounted with tangs to gilt brass maple leaf. H 87 MM; W 73mm 1902-1957. Marked "J. Gaunt & Sons, made in England" So, the crown would match me KC one.

He also had one "as above, black lacquered maple leaf..

No note on value but police stuff usually sells well, especially early stuff. If you decide to get rid of yours let me know.

Peter

[servicepub]

The badge was not limited to the Toronto police but was also worn by the Dominion Police (this group merged with the Royal North-West Mounted Police to create the Royal Canadian Mounted Police).
It is very possible that it was worn by other Canadian police services also.