Canadian Memorial Cross

[STEVIEBOY491]

Hi all,

I recently sold this cross to a buyer on WAF:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=394462

I am happy that the cross is original, however the buyer has shown me a link that sells this copy:

http://www.rarusnet.com/product_info...ducts_id=10612

The buyer is sending the cross back to me and of course I am giving him a refund. My question is what do you think of the my cross compared to the one which is marked as a copy?

Edit: the more I look the one up for sale at the shop looks like a cast caopy from mine. The box for mine is correct whereas the one in the shop is wrong. Ditto for the ribbon too!

Regards

Steve

[Infanteer]

Well, to my eye, the copy looks to be exactly that... a copy. There are some details on the copy that don't match the "real" medal exactly. Pretty uncanny though that they are marked the same. I can understand the buyer not wanting to have a medal that is named the same as known copies...

[Adam H]

Copies of this exact Memorial Cross (name naming) are flogged on ebay by a seller called Johnbarriex (or close to that). He has been discussed extensively BMF regarding his dangerous forgeries.

Although he sells them as copies, they are not marked as such,and once out of his hands, could be dangerous to the unwary.

I'd like to see your cross in hand, but, I suspect this may be the original that he once had and made a casting of.

Unfortunately as the Infanteer has said, this Memorial Cross is now somewhat tainted, even if original. Sorry to say...

Cheers,

Adam

[aeroraider]

Memorial Cross

Wasn't it possible to have more than one cross issued to a family? I thought that the wife and mother could each receive a cross.

[Infanteer]

I'm not sure... I believe only one was issued but someone else will know for certain. But really, that's not the point here. There are obviously many of these medals circulating with the same man's details engraved on the reverse. More than would have ever been officially issued.

[Wouter J]

Wasn't it possible to have more than one cross issued to a family? I thought that the wife and mother could each receive a cross.

Yes, both the wife and mother could receive a memorial cross although this was not always the case.

[force136]

Memorial Cross

THis is the stuff that really pisses me off. Not only for collectors but also the memory of Sapper Davies. Disgusting. The seller of this stuff is just another asshole creating forgeries. If it is not marked COPY it is a forgery.

Both mother and wife got the cross (PERIOD). When the service medals were issued they also got a memorial plaque ( not bar ) to sew to the medals when mounted. It is true that sometimes the family did not get all they were supposed to, either that or they simply forgot about it and lost it. It was printed policy that everyone get the above items. IF there was no wife or mother, no crossed were issued. The rest of the family would only get the plaque for the medals.

Really sad to see this sort of thing. It is a mockery of the memory of that soldier.

Ken Joyce

Yes, both the wife and mother could receive a memorial cross although this was not always the case.

[Adam H]

Memorial Crosses were issued to both the wife, and mother, if both were still living. This was in effect from the time the Memorial Cross was instituted in 1919.

Today, up to 3 recipients can receive the cross and are designated by the soldier (not necessarily the wife or mother)

Although Sapper Davies had a surviving wife and mother, and 2 crosses were quite possibly issued, I don't think that is what we're seeing here. There are numerous fraudulent copies circulating that have been cast from (one of) the original Cross.

Cheers,

Adam

[Adam H]

THis is the stuff that really pisses me off. Not only for collectors but also the memory of Sapper Davies. Disgusting. The seller of this stuff is just another asshole creating forgeries. If it is not marked COPY it is a forgery.

Both mother and wife got the cross (PERIOD). When the service medals were issued they also got a memorial plaque ( not bar ) to sew to the medals when mounted. It is true that sometimes the family did not get all they were supposed to, either that or they simply forgot about it and lost it. It was printed policy that everyone get the above items. IF there was no wife or mother, no crossed were issued. The rest of the family would only get the plaque for the medals.

Really sad to see this sort of thing. It is a mockery of the memory of that soldier.

Ken Joyce

Ken,

I agree, it's an affront to the soldier's memory. It disgusts me too.

However, I think you have your wars slightly confused (or maybe I am reading your post wrong). In WWI the British government issued the (large round bronze) Memorial Plaque and accompanying illuminated Memorial Scroll to surviving next of kin (whomever the medals were sent to). Not all Canadians seem to have received these either. The Canadian government sent a Memorial Cross to the wife and/or mother, as long as they were alive to claim them. In some instances medals/plaques were sent to one person, while 2 crosses were sent to 2 different people. This is partly why it's rather uncommon to find a set of medals with the Memorial Cross and Plaque (and Scroll especially)

In WWII the Memorial Bar (aka "Birks Bar") was issued and intended to be sewn to, or displayed with the medals. These were issued in the blue folders that you have probably seen.

Interestingly, unissued WWII period stocks of these have been refinished, lacquered and engraved with the details of recipients who have died serving in Afghanistan. These are accompanied by a Memorial Scroll that is very close in design to the WWI Scrolls... So now Canada has a very interesting and complete commemoration for the fallen: Memorial Cross (up to 3), Memorial Bar, Memorial Scroll and the Sacrifice Medal.

Cheers,

Adam

[force136]

Yes, sorry Adam I was talking about WW 2 not the first war.

Ken,

I agree, it's an affront to the soldier's memory. It disgusts me too.

However, I think you have your wars slightly confused (or maybe I am reading your post wrong). In WWI the British government issued the (large round bronze) Memorial Plaque and accompanying illuminated Memorial Scroll to surviving next of kin (whomever the medals were sent to). Not all Canadians seem to have received these either. The Canadian government sent a Memorial Cross to the wife and/or mother, as long as they were alive to claim them. In some instances medals/plaques were sent to one person, while 2 crosses were sent to 2 different people. This is partly why it's rather uncommon to find a set of medals with the Memorial Cross and Plaque (and Scroll especially)

In WWII the Memorial Bar (aka "Birks Bar") was issued and intended to be sewn to, or displayed with the medals. These were issued in the blue folders that you have probably seen.

Interestingly, unissued WWII period stocks of these have been refinished, lacquered and engraved with the details of recipients who have died serving in Afghanistan. These are accompanied by a Memorial Scroll that is very close in design to the WWI Scrolls... So now Canada has a very interesting and complete commemoration for the fallen: Memorial Cross (up to 3), Memorial Bar, Memorial Scroll and the Sacrifice Medal.

Cheers,

Adam