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**Belgianator** · 11-27-2009, 09:38 AM

Here are the more detailed photos
[IMG][IMG]<a href="http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/?action=view&current=PB260264.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/PB260264.jpg" border="0" alt="detail FS B2"></a>[/IMG][/IMG][IMG]<a href="http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/?action=view&current=PB260265.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/PB260265.jpg" border="0" alt="detail pattern 3"></a>[/IMG]<a href="http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/?action=view&current=PB260264.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/PB260264.jpg" border="0" alt="detail FS B2"></a>[IMG]<a href="http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/?action=view&current=PB260256.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/PB260256.jpg" border="0" alt="detail pattern 3 mark"></a>[/IMG]

**Belgianator** · 11-27-2009, 09:47 AM

So if any of you Gentlemen can help me out to determine what this 3rd pattern is War or post war and perhaps the origin country if not war related?
Also the leather scabbard with the copper fittings was with this 3rd pattern dagger . Is it any good WWII late war pattern or postwar?
Thx in advance for your help guys

**lnijherald** · 11-27-2009, 01:44 PM

Yes, the knife is a WWII 3rd pattern Fairbairn Sykes. The handle should show a moldnumber 1, 2, 3 or 4 just under the pommel nut. There probably was a broadarow just above the number 18 near the crossguard, but it is now obscured by the damage.

If the scabbard is wartime is impossible to say now, do you have a complete picture of the rear of the scabbard?

It's quite a fine collection of F/S kives you got there.

Luc

**Belgianator** · 11-27-2009, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by lnijherald View Post

Yes, the knife is a WWII 3rd pattern Fairbairn Sykes. The handle should show a moldnumber 1, 2, 3 or 4 just under the pommel nut. There probably was a broadarow just above the number 18 near the crossguard, but it is now obscured by the damage.

If the scabbard is wartime is impossible to say now, do you have a complete picture of the rear of the scabbard?

It's quite a fine collection of F/S kives you got there.

Luc

Hello Luc,
Thx for you quick reply and comment to my knives and I know you are the man if it concerns to these knives.
As for the moldnumber I couldn't find any not beneath the hilt and not under the pommel nut. It just has that I8 or I2 stamp or mold on the hilt were there is that strange triangular construction mark. I f you look at my pics closely you will see it has the same marking on the other side of the hilt.
But these hand grounded blades (the ones with the small triangular at the end of the blade near the quillon ,that's what my 3rd pattern is he) are they always WWII era? that's good news then.
Also this pattern with only some part of the hilt showing a layer of copper was also strange to me.
As for the scabbard I can tell you it could be better but the frog is attached with 2 copper rivets and no nickel ones.
But I assume that not only FS was making these knives so there are small variations in types I believe?
I will try to make a photo of the scabbard.
Would like to hear your remarks on the stated above
Thx
and Greetings from Rainy Belgium

**Belgianator** · 11-27-2009, 02:05 PM

PS In none of the 3 knives is the stamp England mentionned which is also a good sign I believe (at least that is what I read on this great forum )

**lnijherald** · 11-27-2009, 02:14 PM

No mold number is a bad sign. So how does it end up with and early handground blade and a proper crossguard? Hang on, I'm getting the impression that the damage on both sides just above the crossguard is from a vice. The handle was put in the vice to fasten the pommel nut and create a knife from spare parts.....
Well, that is my working theory.

So please show us close ups of the pommel nut, and how the excess tang was peened over.
Also of the sides of the handle to have a good look at the cast lines.

Luc

**Belgianator** · 11-28-2009, 05:11 AM

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**Belgianator** · 11-28-2009, 05:14 AM

[IMG]<a href="http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/?action=view&current=detailpommelnut.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/detailpommelnut.jpg" border="0" alt="detail pommelnut"></a>[/IMG]

**Belgianator** · 11-28-2009, 05:15 AM

**Belgianator** · 11-28-2009, 05:17 AM

detail of backside of scabbard
copper rivets
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[/IMG]

**Belgianator** · 11-28-2009, 05:31 AM

Here is the detail of the pommel nut.

I see it has that characteristic cross kinda marking on the side of the pommelnut as with the early pattern 2 knives (That's what I read and saw pics here on this forum ) I pointed a red line towards the marking.

I do not think the knive is been tampered with as you can see the pommelnut hasn't baan screwed with in ages.
As for provenance all I can say is that I found all of them on fleamarkets in the province of Antwerp (going from Antwerp city to the city Geel towards neat Limburg) a long while back and I know there were a lot of paratroopers there in WWII (British Polish Canadian) and I haven't paid more then 25 EUR for each of them.

I think it is made not by Wilkinson but by an other firm and want to know if someone has a similar dagger (the handle been copperished only between the handles) or if someone can tell me which army used such dagger after WWII then I would be much obliged but I do not think it is a parts assembled knive.
If you have a good look at the side of the hilt you will see that it is very nicely moulded and not crude.
I really would like your opinion Luc on this one and if other members would chime in then we can have a good discussion here.
Already many thx in advance
Belgianator
[IMG]<a href="http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/?action=view&current=marking.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj6/belgianator/FS%20Knives/marking.jpg" border="0" alt="detail marking"></a>[/IMG]

**grip3846** · 11-28-2009, 10:41 AM

Hi

Hi,
First of all two very nice fighting knives,1st an 2nd pattern one are great and what a price 25€ each. Now then the 3rd pattern is another thing,nice drop forged hand finished blade,but no mould number on the handle,now then that would mean to me that Wilkinson did not make this knife,perhaps Rodgers did. The mark near the crossguard is a strange thing but so is the number,perhaps that is a unit stores stamp,who knows. I would say that it is probably a period piece made by Rodgers. I have seen the sign of crossed keys on the area where the "vice mark"is before on 3rd patterns,could this be the removal of that?
Regards,Ivan

**lnijherald** · 11-28-2009, 01:20 PM

The pommel nut is odd, I have never seen such a flat nut on any pattern. The scabbard is a good late WWII pattern.
As a whole, I can't make up my mind.

Ivan, the crossed keys are found on commercial, non-military Nowill and Sons knives.

And, yes I'm from the Netherlands.

Luc

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