Help With Bren Guns

[Lt. Martin]

I am thinking about purchasing a WWII Bren gun, it is made from original part sets and it is deactivated. This is a MK 1M reciever with a Mk 2 barrel.

It was built using original parts from Brens from WWII.

This is the sellers description:
"This is what you get: A fully assembled, inert, WW2 British Bren unrestricted Display Machine Gun complete with removable inert barrel, operational bipod, Butt Slide and magazine. Mark 1 drum back sights and the late Mark 1/early Mark 2 Butt Stock Assembly. The Receiver Markings are mostly in place. Bren Display Gun is built on the Mk 1/M (modified) receiver. The Mk 1M was developed to provide a transition to the Mk 2, and was found with various Mk 2 features at different times, including Mk 2 barrels, Mk 2 butts, and Mk 2 bipods."

Was it ever the case during the war that during transition time they had Mk. 1M recievers with Mk. 2 barrels?

When was production stopped on the Mk. 2?


This website also offers a Mk. 1M reciever with a Mk. 1 barrel and a "late Mk.1 / early Mk. 2 stock

Which is a better deal?

[Lt. Martin]

The Mk. 1M with the Mk.2 barrel is $500
The Mk. 1M with the Mk.1 barrel is $525

Both have Mk. 2 Stocks.


Which one is a better deal?

Many Thanks, S. Martin

[Lt. Martin]

I am not a member here yet, but this post is on warrelics forum under the world firearms section. There are pictures of each of the Bren guns in that post.

[Teamski]

Either way, you will be getting a Bren that is at least 1/2" shorter than it should be.....

-Ski

[SMP]

http://www.thegunner.net/brenrecg.htm

[Lt. Martin]

All I am asking is, was it ever the case that the people making the Brens would have had mixed parts during transition time?

And would the Bren mk.1 M reciever ever be placed with the Mk.1 barrel, or woul it have had to be a Mk.1 reciever to have a Mk. 1 barrel?

Was there some sort of MK.1 M barrel?

[Dave Alexander]

I'm confused as to the seller's use of the description "transition time". The MkI had an extra folding handle under the butt which the MKII did not have. The MKII had a simpified rear sight also. The MKI(M) was produced in Canada and many of them were for 7.92 x 57 (Mauser) ammo shipped to Chinese Forces. It had non-telescoping legs and no butt plate. The I and II had the same barrel but the MKIII had it shortened by 2.75" (70mm). I imagine most parts were inter-changable between I and II as changes to them seem to be minor.

[Lt. Martin]

The MK.1M was not used is Europe????

I was under the impression that:

"Built on the Mk 1/M (modified) receiver. This receiver was developed early in the war to speed up production. It’s most visible difference from the Mk 1 receiver is that the forward dovetail for the optical sight was eliminated. Other changes included eliminating some lightening cuts. (See The Bren Gun Saga, 2nd Edition, pages 157, 239.) The Mk 1/1M was developed to provide a transition to the Mk 2, and was found with various Mk 2 features at different times, including Mk 2 barrels, Mk 2 butts, and Mk 2 bipods."

Is this statement true? (this is from the seller)

[Lt. Martin]

It says on the http://www.thegunner.net/brenrecg.htm (Bren Gun recognition) site:

"The Marks of Bren basically comprised the Mk1, Mk1m, MkII, Mk3 (introduced 1944 for jungle fighting) and the Mk4 also introduced in 1944. Postwar saw the Mk2/1 and the L4 7.62mm version."

So many of the Mk.1M were used in China? It doesnt say anything about it?

(the Bren guns I am refering to have butt plates)
Does this mean it was not a China used example? How can I tell the difference between the China used ones and the regular British/Canadian ones?

Did Britain not make the MK.1M???

[SMP]

I think you need to find a specialist forum.
All I can tell you is that it is concidered better to buy a matching Bren, ie MK1 barrel, with MK1 bipod/butt/receiver etc. Brens are very cheap in the UK. Most are hybrids, made from many mismatched parts- all assembled post-war. You can buy one with transit box and spare mags for about £150 at Beltring. Good matching Brens sell for up to £500 with the early sight fitting on the side.
You sound as if details are important to you. I would go for the dearer option if I were you.

Regards,
Steve


( my Bren - it has a later bipod)

[evilmike]

Brens have shot up in price as the stocks have all gone... your looking realistically from £300 upwards

[Lt. Martin]

Well the thing is it is only "dearer" to me if I can find out:

Did the British or Candians comonly use the Mk.1M in WWII? And did they ever use the variant Mk.1M reciever and Mk.2 barrel?

[Lt. Martin]

Thanks for the help, I just need that one main question answered.

(here in the US I cant find very many deactivated Bren guns, so this is my only option.)

Do any of you know of any deactivated Bren gun dealers here in the US? (thanks to the BATF we cant import any deactivated guns from England )

[SMP]

They both used the Mk1M. It was very common.

I don't know the answer to the 2nd question.

[pylon1357]

Maybe I have oversimplified this but to me it comes down to Personal preference in regards to the best deal. MkI w MkI barrel or MkI w MkII barrel. To me I would take the MkI wMkI barrel. As to them both having a MkII stock, that to me is not important really. In the feild an armourer would replace braken parts with whatever he has on hand.