Hi , just picked this one up, appears to be a private purchsae item from moss brothers but cannot find a ''crown'' to date this item. can anybody out there help please with perhaps dateing this item. cheers Pete.
-
-
2 -
3Comment
-
4Comment
-
It could very well be of late ww2 vintage, but at the same time it could be into the 1950's as well. It is impossible to be sure, as Moss Bros. have been at the King St. Covent Garden address for a very long time.
CBComment
-
Really impossible to say. But still a nice private purchase beret.
Cheers, Ade.Comment
-
Lovely and quite possibly late WW2.
Yours, Guy.Comment
-
It looks like a small crown beret which makes it mid-fifties at its best.
LucComment
-
I'm not sure what would make you say that Luc. It Is a well established fact that these private purchase officers berets came with a smaller plate from the off. The plethora of photographic evidence more than supports this but has been overlooked by authors etc who perhaps have their own adgenda to work to.Originally posted by lnijherald View Post
Many years ago I owned a virtually identical beret that had belonged to Graeme Warrack. He used It as his sunday best, when he was playing the organ In church, just post war.
After only a cursory search on the net I managed to find a couple of pics In support of this argument. Looks like another case of the "Officer Specific" Denison Smock argument, which somehow turned from a theory to dogma In about 20 years.
Yours, Guy.Comment
-
I'm totally unaware of plethoric evidence Guy. I have seen many of these private purchase berets, but no small crown examples with a rock solid provenance when it comes to date of purchase.
The picture you show of Gen Urquhart is taken after Arnhem; the ones taken of him during the battle show a regular large crown beret. And so does Warrack's beret.
LucComment
-
And that proves what exactly.
That Is a wartime colour photo I believe, showing 4 small crown berets. Because something Is beyond ones personal experience does not mean It did not happen. I suspect these private purchase berets tended to be worn with best dress.
You are right though, until one turns up with photographic evidence people will continue to doubt them.
Yours, Guy.Last edited by Beau Brummel.; 11-12-2009, 06:49 AM.Comment
-
That is not as well established as you think, unless I haven't been paying attention for the past 6 years.
So you'll have to come up with something better than a picture which you believe dates from WWII bro.
And don't forget that small size berets have a significantly smaller crown.
LucComment
-
You are of course correct, In order to really nail It down we need to know when those pictures were taken. Many years ago, before certain books were printed, these were believed to be late war private purchase. The example I owned along with the pictures convinced me and I still believe certain examles to be of that time frame. As for the 'significantly smaller crown' well actually they are not THAT different In wear, they just look It off the head so to speak. I completely understand and empathise with your reticence. To acknowledge them as wartime would then open the flood gates for every toerag In Chrisendom to start selling post war pieces as wartime.Originally posted by lnijherald View PostThat is not as well established as you think, unless I haven't been paying attention for the past 6 years.
So you'll have to come up with something better than a picture which you believe dates from WWII bro.
And don't forget that small size berets have a significantly smaller crown.
Luc
On the other hand one must make a clear distinction between 'Issue' and private purchase. We know the approximate time frame that the Issue pieces became smaller but a lot of evidence points to the pp pieces being like that from the word go, ie late war. It's just another one of those Interesting anomalies that really wouldn't be that hard to prove if someone could be bothered, I can't. You seem to have been forging ahead In the field of beret research so rather than just blindly sticking to the party line why don't you go and look at this with an open mind. If you had the Inclination to do so I'm sure you could lay It to rest one way or t'other and I think you could be suprised at what you find.
In my Initial post I simply stated that It was a nice piece and quite possibly late war, you then came In with your comment about It being 50's which i found rather throwaway. When I challenged you, your stance that the picture was post Arnhem was really a bit suprising. I understand your patriotism but please do try to be objective Bro. Arnhem wad neither pivotal nor successful and the war continued for a long time afterwards. If you take my comments In the spirit they were meant I know you will see my point and laugh at yourself a bit.
Boomshanka baby, Guy.Comment
-
Patriotism and Marget Garden do not come into the equasion.
I'm perfectly willing to believe that small crown private purchase berets were available in WWII.
But it is my rational nature that tells me that if there is a theory it needs to be falsified.
If not, it is just wishful thinking.
But I'm sure some people disagree and find this a nice beret:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
LucComment
Comment