LRDG side cap and badge

[grip3846]

I thought I would share my LRDG badged side cap with you all. What makes this for me is that the soldier has fixed the badge onto the cap with his dog tag,unfortunately name side down! It is fixed in such a way that that if I remove it I may not be able to put it back on. any observations are welcome and I hope you enjoy.
Regards,Ivan.

[grip3846]

badge

Badge

[grip3846]

dog tag

dog tag

[lnijherald]

Ivan, it seems there is a line running down the middle of each of the scorpion's legs, or is that the picture? It is not something I recall from the badges forum.

Luc

[BrentNunns]

Hi Ivan,
Any chance of a sharper picture of the badge?
Any provenance to its origins?
Cheers
Brent

[Greg B]

Hi Ivan,

LRDG Badges have been well faked over the year, some very poorly and some better than average but always lacking some details that the known originals have.

Often the badly cast ones are presented as the sand cast varient and well polished by the vets... these are never really popular unless they have rock solid provenance from the vet...and for me personally thats the only way I would buy one. Very unusal to have lines running down the legs although you will find a groove/line on the pincers.

However I will say one thing in favour of your badge and that is I quite like the shape of the scorpian especially the body however as brent has said really good photo's are required and even then its probably difficult to know for certain and looking at the reverse would be required which is going to be difficult with the way yours is fixed.

Here is one of mine and more typical of the type New Zealanders were presented. Named and converted to a pin back as many were.

Greg

[grip3846]

Close up

No lines on legs,just a very poor photo,here is a better pic.

[Jean-Loup]

If you want to know what is on the dog tag, get the cap X rayed. You should be able to get that done at your local radiologist for free or very cheap.
But considering the shinyness and fress scratches on the dog tag, I have bad vibes...

JL

[RMR]

Why would anyone want to secure their cap badge with their dogtag? Roger

[grip3846]

Why not

Why not? It makes a nice flat backing to keep the red felt,which more than likely attaches him to an Armoured Div prior to his attachment to the LRDG,in place. Soldiers did some funny things,making cap badges from spoons springs to mind!
As to the scratches on the tag,I cannot say,but looked at through a loop there is dirt in them so not fresh as in done yesterday, and the shiney bits,the camera flash may have a lot to do with that,I really can't comment,certainly not done by me!!
Regards,Ivan

[Gary Jucha]

I

I suspect the dogtag will be a blank.

It was not uncommon for a dogtag blank to be used as a backing piece, for the simple reason there were no sharp edges and they were common enough to get hold of.

A "variant" (if you would like to call it that), which I have, is a piece of thin perspex (plexiglass) which the soldier cut out using his round dogtag as a template ..
.. Making the mistake to cut the top hole through, then realising he needed the hole in the centre for a screw back badge !

I also have a Royal Armoured Corp badge, which has a cut down German dogtag as a backing plate.

Gary J.

Why would anyone want to secure their cap badge with their dogtag? Roger

[BrentNunns]

Hi Ivan,
I am very much in agreement with Greg, without rock solid provenance there will be a big question mark as to it authenticity. Without the provenance the only avenue left is to match it to a known original.

Fortunately in New Zealand we have several collectors who own most of the known versions of LRDG badges, of which have all been obtained from rock solid sources.

If you don’t have the "provenance" and you really want to know how well your badge will do under expert evaluation, I’m afraid the badge will have to be removed to do this.
I am pretty sure that if it is removed it can be refitted, although you may need an expert such as a jeweller to refit it.

I am assuming the lid it is attached to has general service buttons which would suggest it belonged to a Guardsman?
Did the Guardsman use red backing’s behind their badges?

Although the LRDG used all types of headdress, including the side cap, the final official hat was the black beret.

My own thoughts about your badge, unlike the one which Greg has shown and appears to be the struck (Stamped) variety. Yours could be a first issue badge (Early 1942) which were a cast version.
Unfortunately, the heavy wear and damage to your badge, which I suspect was present before being applied to the hat, make it impossible to evaluate.
Brent

[grip3846]

back

With great care I have removed the tag and here are the pics of the back. The cap does have 2 General Service buttons. To me it appears to be an early sand cast badge.

[grip3846]

2

2

[grip3846]

3

3