Airborne?

[Old Smelly]

Forgive me if I am wrong but was the purpose of this thread to advertise an item on ebay.

[grip3846]

Well?

I thought that too,the winner, though has stated that he did not see it before bidding,he is new to the Forum therefore I believe he has won the item and then has done some searching and come up with it on here. I,however think you are right. Would the seller have got a better deal on the E Stand,I think it sold under its real value,I wish the buyer well,he has a nice piece not often seen up for sale.
Regards,Ivan.

[ChannelIsles]

Clarification

I recently acquired the helmet and was uncertain of what it was & needed to check it was indeed legit before I made any decision to sell. My interests have been towards German WW2 items.
I was pleased to discover it is an original airborne bungee training helmet & very grateful to a senior WA member for similar confirmation. I received a value & also a couple of PM's of interest from other WAM's.
I offered it to one WAM under the market value & was declined.
I posted a thread to state 'due to my uncertainty over value' I'd listed the item on ebay with a link & the post was deleted the same day by another. I regret if my action was inappropriate.
I am very pleased with the result & I'm positive the buyer will be also.
Brendan

[mousekilla]

bungee helmet

am I missing something here!!
I have seen a good few in my time and owned some as well and have generaly been suspicious of this type -
I prefer the segmented top with enclosed sorbo although I did see one many years ago similar to this type but with BLUE sorbo it came straight out of surplus store for £5 to colin whright well known and well informed collector and was in my opinion a good one !!
I beleive it had an 22/c air ministry marking as these helmets were part of raf equipment so I have not been enthusiastic about broad arrow stamed examples
not sure about a lable of any sort (feathers made denisons)

I would like to see what kind of rubber this example has as original tend to crumple like mad

btw my pal bought one at warnham (remember those days!!) that was dyed black and had a horse hair strips across the crown held in with webbing tape maybe early s o e ?

[lnijherald]

So what is the verdict on this example?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=130342770318

It looks ok to me but didn't quite fetch the price than the one discussed above.

Luc

[Adrian Stevenson]

I agrre Luc, it does look "OK". I would like to see it in hand though. The washed out label does not help. The rubber does look good.

Cheers, Ade.

[force136]

Airborne Troops Training Helmet Standard Pattern

What I find interesting is the fact that there appears to be an odd anomaly regarding this helmet. I have had, and have seen, quite a few of these 1942 dated training helmets. Yet I find it difficult to find one actually being worn by British/Polish or Canadian paratroops in the UK. Please note that this variant has no seams in the covering canvas material. ALL training helmets I have seen used in the UK have a different cut of material. OK, I know there was not a photographer at every turn to take pictures, however you will note by looking in books that for such an early dated piece of equipment, these rarely if ever show up in photos in the UK.

That said, I do have plenty of photos of Ghurka's and Indian Airborne wearing this exact variant of helmet in India from 1942 till the post war years.

I am wondering if this "style" of training helmet was a special order filled during the expansion of the Indian Airborne in 1942-43.

I am not saying it is exclusive to India however try and find one in a photo in the UK, it is not easy yet they seem to have been abundent in India.

Ken

Hi Jose,
Your finger did not stutter on the £'s key when you were bidding for the bungee,do not apologise for winning such a nice item,the underbidder gave what they were prepared to offer,all is fair in bidding for an item,if you want it put in a bid that you are prepared to pay,not what it is worth on the open market,what it is worth to you! I have not seen a genuine one of these for sale for a long time,but others may disagree,but I think you got it cheaply.
Regards,Ivan.

[force136]

Another thing

Black dyed training helmets are for RAF instructors that is why they are AM marked. The actual helmets worn by trainees were usually broad arrow marked.

Ken

What I find interesting is the fact that there appears to be an odd anomaly regarding this helmet. I have had, and have seen, quite a few of these 1942 dated training helmets. Yet I find it difficult to find one actually being worn by British/Polish or Canadian paratroops in the UK. Please note that this variant has no seams in the covering canvas material. ALL training helmets I have seen used in the UK have a different cut of material. OK, I know there was not a photographer at every turn to take pictures, however you will note by looking in books that for such an early dated piece of equipment, these rarely if ever show up in photos in the UK.

That said, I do have plenty of photos of Ghurka's and Indian Airborne wearing this exact variant of helmet in India from 1942 till the post war years.

I am wondering if this "style" of training helmet was a special order filled during the expansion of the Indian Airborne in 1942-43.

I am not saying it is exclusive to India however try and find one in a photo in the UK, it is not easy yet they seem to have been abundent in India.

Ken

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Ken, have you ever seen a RAF blue grey helmet? I saw one years ago at a show: it had a lower curved crown and a jump instructor wing in bullion added to the front. It looked fairly convincingly made, but far too exotic for my tastes at £230 back then.

Cheers, Ade.

[force136]

RAF Helmets

Hi Ade

I have been told different things by different people. One instructor veteran at Ringway told us that he wore a black helmet. However in some photos I have, it appears to be a lighter colour. I have a few shots of British instructors with Canadians and SAS wearing this helmet from 1943. A few wear the instructor badge on the front. I also have a shot of a Canadian instructor at Rivers circa 1948, Manitoba wearing a training helmet he brought back from Ringway. It appears to be a black one or a very dark blue. These photos are in "Into the Maelstrom" from Service Publications here in Canada. All of these helmets have the seams in the material.

Regards

Ken

Hi Ken, have you ever seen a RAF blue grey helmet? I saw one years ago at a show: it had a lower curved crown and a jump instructor wing in bullion added to the front. It looked fairly convincingly made, but far too exotic for my tastes at £230 back then.

Cheers, Ade.

[lnijherald]

I have 3 pictures showing paras wearing the Bungee helmet; they also wear the early Bruneval step-in smock, crepe sole boots and adapted repirator case. That, plus a double deck bus in one of the pictures makes me believe they were taken in Britain during the embrionic fase of the airborne forces.
At least some of the helmets seem significantly darker that the smocks, though it is impossible to tell if they are a dark shade of khaki or even blue.

What surprises me is that there are so many slightly different patterns: no seams, no grommets, 1, 2 or 4 grommets.

Luc

[force136]

Sorbo's

Hi Luc

The early training helmets are almost impossible to find and are actually a greenish colour that is why they appear darker. These were the precursors to the standardized helmet ie. the ones we are discussing. The very early prototype of helmet appears to have been stuffed with padding rather than using a solid strip or strips of sorbo rubber put together.

Since I have only seen the instructors version in photos, I have no idea if they were specially made or just dyed by the school themselves in order to distinguish between instructors and students. This may explain why some appear black and others a lighter shade.

I know it does not help to cry about it now, but who was the idiot in the US, Canada and the UK who decided after the war to liquidate all items sent to Offices of Ordnance and Supply for reference? We all had institutions whose job it was to house sealed patterns or unpattented material for future study and reference. If they had been thinking, we would have a collection of all these variants today.

Anyway there were several manufacturers of the standardized helmets which created the many different variations in how they were put together.

If anyone has one of the early green/olive drab examples would love to see one.

Ken

I have 3 pictures showing paras wearing the Bungee helmet; they also wear the early Bruneval step-in smock, crepe sole boots and adapted repirator case. That, plus a double deck bus in one of the pictures makes me believe they were taken in Britain during the embrionic fase of the airborne forces.
At least some of the helmets seem significantly darker that the smocks, though it is impossible to tell if they are a dark shade of khaki or even blue.

What surprises me is that there are so many slightly different patterns: no seams, no grommets, 1, 2 or 4 grommets.

Luc

[lnijherald]

Ken, thanks for the info. It's another piece of equipment that needs futher study.

Luc

[cw2311]

Very nice find! I like it.

[lnijherald]

Posting two pictures from Ken, to illustrate his comments made earlier.

Luc