WWII British 1st Airborne patches

[John F.]

Hello:

Found these opposing pair of British 1st Airborne patches depicting Bellerophane astride Pegasus yesterday at a Gun Show in Dallas, TX. The patches were without the shoulder titles. Anyone know how difficult it will be to find either the “Airborne” or “Parachute” shoulder titles that would have accompanied these patches? I am assuming they are WWII vintage but am unsure. The patches do not glow under black. What are your opinions please?

Thanks!

John

[John F.]

Close-up of British 1st Airborne patches

Here is a close-up.

Thanks again!

John

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, the Pegasus formation sign was worn by both 1st and 6th Airborne Divisions.

The curved "Airborne" tiles are mega rare! Expect to pay at least £200 for one. I can't remember the last time I saw a real one for sale.

The "Parachute XXI" titles I know about I have met nearly every surviving member of the Coy. I am an honourary member of the 21st Independant Parachute Company Veterans association. This title was an unofficial title allowed to be worn by the C.O. Major "Boy" Wilson on "Best" BD only (that used for walking out) These titles date from some time in between the Vets return from Arnhem in early Oct 1944 and the deployment to Norway in May 1945. One Vet sold his several years ago for £300.... A Vet I knew, Reg Burgess, who passed away in October still had his.

Getting to your flashes. The front I like. They are well detailed. This backing type I have never seen before? But these are copied the world over, so I only know UK made and Euro made stuff. Bear in mind these embroidered flashes are all private purchase. So variations abound! Plus this flash was worn post war until the 1990's.
Hope this helps?

Cheers, Ade.

[John F.]

...The curved "Airborne" tiles are mega rare! Expect to pay at least £200 for one. I can't remember the last time I saw a real one for sale.Cheers, Ade.

Ade:

Thanks for the reply! What about other titles like "Rough Riders", "Anti-Tank", or "Artillery" how hard is it to find any of these items? Also did all units have the curved style shoulder titles or did some go without? Was there a straight “Airborne” tab that was worn underneath the patch, and if so are these as difficult to find?

John

[Allan H.]

Hello:

Found these opposing pair of British 1st Airborne patches depicting Bellerophane astride Pegasus yesterday at a Gun Show in Dallas, TX. The patches were without the shoulder titles. Anyone know how difficult it will be to find either the “Airborne” or “Parachute XXI” shoulder titles that would have accompanied these patches? I am assuming they are WWII vintage but am unsure. The patches do not glow under black. What are your opinions please?

Thanks!

John

John,
I would not consider these flashes to be World War II vintage. I have seen a number of these formation signs with the paper backing like these and they do not conform to what I have encountered from documented WWII para groups.
As Ade said, the titles and signs are pretty tough to find, and wartime issue examples are normally printed. The emroidered examples normally have a white, pasty, sizing applied to the back of the felt.
Your request for other titles is going to be difficult to give you a simple reply to also. You see, finding a pair of titles for the "Royal Artillery" for example, would be relatively easy and inexpensive. Finding a pair of "Anti-Tank" would be harder than finding "Parachute Regiment" examples. And they are VERY expensive.
Allan

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, just for interest here is a pic from my collection of an original embroidered Pegasus flash worn on an Airborne Artillery Captains Officers service dress jacket.

As Allan has rightly pointed out, issue titles are printed. These are very well reproduced now, the best ones are made by a mate of mine, Steve Kiddle of "Pegasus Militaria". These once aged with cold tea and machine sewn onto a BD are hard to tell apart from originals.

Both flashes that you mention, "Rough Riders" and "Anti Tank Artillery" are again unofficial titles and are incredibly rare. I hae never seen a real set of these, but I have seen plenty of Indian made copies. These were done by Harlan Glenn ( another friend of mine!) of "King & Country" some years ago. The regularly appear on E Bay as real.
A "Royal Artillery" shoulder title should be fairly easy to find, either in issue printed form or embroidered private purchase versions.

Original British Airborne stuff is now going up in price very rapidly and with next years 60th Anniversaries of "D-Day" and "OP Market-Garden" things will only get worse.
If you want any more help with Britsh Airborne suff please ask away!

Hi Allan, thanks for mentioning that you have seen these paper backed flashes before. This is the great advantage of the Internet! I think once sewn onto a jacket they would be hard to tell apart.

Cheers, Ade .

[John F.]

Gentlemen:

Thank you for your replies!

John

[VerKuilen Ager]

While we're on the subject: here are a couple of items I've had stashed in the bottom of my swap box (I mostly concentrate on U.S. patches but sometimes save interesting pieces from elsewhere) for probably 30 years. I've always presumed they were originals, but comments from more expert eyes would be welcome. (Lines around the edge of the Glider Regt. are stitch marks, and the yellow spot on the back is a spot of paper from the item being glued in an album.)

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Histaria, the printed Pegasus issue flashes are original, but impossible to date, as these continued to be made into the 1950's but are identical to a WW2 produced item. So all these are sold as "WW2" .

The curved "Parachute" titles look very nice too. These are now rare. They were superceeded by the Oxford and Cambridge blue coloured "Parachute Regt" titles in late 1943. (Same colours as the Glider Pilot Regt titles.)
Post war these titles changed colour again, to a maroon background with blue lettering.

The "Glider Pilot Regt." titles are the post war issue from the late 1940's/early 1950's. The wartime issue lack the small Horsa glider featured under the title. The Glider Pilot Regt also gained their own cap badge in 1950, but the ironic thing was the Regt was then in decline as gliders were "old hat". The Regt was disbanded in 1957 and became the "Army Air Corps".

Cheers, Ade.

[deejay]

Pegasus

Hi Ade and Allan,

as this thread is the only detailled information I have found untill now on the internet on these, maybe you could have a look at these Pegasus patches and give a date of production or issue as they differ from earlier discussed patches.

thank you

Regards,

DJ

[Allan H.]

I am having a difficult time telling whether the two sets of photos that you have posted are supposed to be the same pair of titles. The first set appears to have a white backing which is a sure sign that these are reproductions. I am amazed by the numbers of these that I see that appear to have been sewn to a uniform. I cannot tell whether they have been "liberated" by a reenactor, or whether they were "humped up" to make an unwary collector bite on a fake.
The second set of photos of the reverse of the patches show a much more convincing patch. If you scroll back up the the photos posted by Histaria, you will see the blue coming through the background of the patch, creating a photo negative like effect, which is correct for a "wartime" example.
As Ade stated earlier, these titles are now widely faked and all of them should be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism. Some of these fakes are mind blowing good!
Hope this helps.
Allan

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Deejay, I have had a look at the two sets of Pegasus flashes that you have posted. Both are repros in my opinion. The first set appear to be a set made by Harlan Glenn; they are an odd shade of maroon to the background that appears alomst purple, which is a giveaway to the flashes.

The second set are more like it, but, like Allan, I do not like the back. But these when sewn onto a BD will look "good".

Here is a link to the best copies made by a mate of mine:
http://www.pegasusmilitaria.com/page30.html


The trouble is with these flashes is they were made by many different makers over a long period of time. So there are many colour / design variations. Maybe I should to start cataloging these

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi again Deejay, I have taken some pics of some of my original printed Pegasus flashes and I have pasted the pics together (first time I have tried this ) to shown how the design of Pegasus varies.

I hope that you find this info useful?

By the way, the first set of flashes you posted are not Harlan Glenn's copies, like I first thought. I have dug out an old set I still have and the Pegasus does not match. But I am still 100% certain they are bad due to the colour and material.

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Second set of pasted together pics Checkout the small differences in Pegasus.

[Adrian Stevenson]

FAKE Pegasus flashes made by Harlan Glenn of "King & Country".