WW1 medal group

[jim anderson]

I just picked up a set of medals to a gentleman who served with the 7/by m.g.c. (motors) in WW1. His medal bar includes the M.M., British war and victory medal ,1935 and 1937 Coronation medals and the long service medal with Canada bar. He started as a gunner with the 7/by and finished as the RSM of the 12th bn CMGC. I've managed to pull his medal card from the National Archieves and the supplement to the London Gazette for the M.M. notification... I'm new at researching medals and am hoping someone can point me in the right direction as to further places to look. The gentlemans name is J.B. Anderson reg number 69068 if that helps... thanks

[byterock]

very odd he doesn't show up in the attestment papers

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/a...3=&interval=20

and the regimental number does not match there either

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/a...68&interval=20

perhaps a put together??

Though these atestment papers are not 100% perfect it is usually the first placwe to start. He could of been in the British army ant TFX into the Canadian at some point

[paulbear]

Does not show up in the MM rolls neither

[yellow]

Both the MM and the WW1 medals check out. Remember that he served in a British Unit thats why you cannot find him on your Canadian lists. Highest rank attained in the British Army is Corporal.

To research this group the Canadian collectors here need to know this mans Canadian Army number.

One thing thats always confused me about medals to the Canadian machine gun units is why you marked them up to the C.M.G.B (Canadian Machine Gun Brigade) yet the reality is the unit is in fact the Canadian Machine Gun Corps?

Looking forward to an answer from someone about that. Thank you.

Steve.

[byterock]

They started as CMG which as you know is a very high level post nominal.

In CMGB the'B' is for Battalion or in a few odd cases 'Battery'

Or at least that is what I always though they stood for

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/medi...hine_Gun_Corps

So the guy can to Canada after the war looks like.

[jim anderson]

There are no doubts in my mind that this is an authentic set. I've already pulled his medal index card from the British army and pulled the supplement to the London Gazette and he shows up on the 06 august 1918 issue. The engraving on the rim of the Canada medal is R.S.M.(W.O..CL.1) J.B.ANDERSON M.M. 12TH BN.C.M.G.C. There is no regimental number on this medal. I assume that he emigrated to Canada and thus the long service medal with Canada bar. Does the 12Th bn. C.M.G.C. refer to the Canadian machine gun corp or does it still have a British involvement? It seems his British service number doesn't show on the Canadian Data base. Would he have had a new Canadian number?

[Adam H]

WWI Medals to Canadian Machine gunners are generally named: C.M.G.C.

What is the naming on the WWI Pair?

Will check him if he appears on the rolls for the Jubilee/Coronation as a Canadian.

Likely he transferred to the Canadian army at or just after the end of the war.

Interesting.

Adam

[yellow]

It seams the ones in my collection are impressed as follows:

C.M.G. BDE

Its defo Brigade, not Battalion or Battery.

and the stuff over at Jims is as well:

http://www.vimy.ca/whatsnew.html

Can someone please explain the significance of this? Thank you.

[Adam H]

Hmmm perhaps my memory is failing me but I am sure I have seen some WWI medals named C.M.G.C. Perhaps the difference is time of issue, Gallantry/LSGCs vs. BWM/VM...etc.

The Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigades seems to have been somewhat of an alternate title for these units such as Borden's, Yukon, etc. Not brigade-sized units in numerical sense but, for some reason given that title.

I'll have to dig into this books as I don't have enough first hand knowledge to speak authoritatively...

[paulbear]

Yellow is correct it is Brigade as these units after 1916 where all brigaded even the motor batteries which where held at Divisional command had thier medal so marked. Previous to that it is possible to find only a 1914-15 star to a Machine gun company.
As for my previous remark he does not show up listed in the Canadian MM rolls
but the book is not perfect

[yellow]

Also when the Canadian Machine Gun Units were Brigaded did the regimental number system have blocks assigned to each unit?

Thanks,

Steve.

[Adam H]

Anderson's MM was Gazetted 02 August 1918 and recorded thusly:

69068 Gunner J. B. Anderson, M.M.G. Service, M.G. Corps (Mansfield)

I'd like to see photos of this group. And full details of naming on each medal will help trace his career moves.

Steve,

Will check this out for you when I get home.

Adam

[paulbear]

It is to bad he was missed in the MM book .
Yellow the individual units did not have blocked numbers and the there is no evidence that the 4 distinct hat badges where assigned to specific units either.

PAUL

[Adam H]

Again, he is not in "The MM Book" because he was not in the CEF when he was awarded the MM...

Steve,

There are certain blocks of CEF numbers associated with MG units. However, not all are very useful. For example: Originals of Borden's Bty and the Eatons MMG had blocks of 201-600, and 601-1000 respectively. However, numerous units, especially early in the war, also used "low" numbers, thus, a number like 297 or 926 are likely not unique to one soldier within the CEF.

The Auto MG Bde under Maj. Brutinel was given the number block 45501-46000. These numbers SHOULD be unique. However, due to transfers one cannot be sure that a man actually served overseas in the CMG Bde simply because he has a number in that range. As I know you know, there are often variables and factors to WWI service histories...

Another block of numbers. 2000251-2000750 was designated as a "MG Draft" raised in NB/NS/PEI areas. I don't have much info on these chaps.

Those are the only number blocks I know of associated with MG units. Obviously a great many were drawn from drafts from other units.

Cheers,

Adam

[paulbear]

Adam I have the book to he asked if the Brigaded units had numbered blocks and the answer is NO. They where formed from the amalgimation of the existing 19 machind gun companies and single mounted company. After that from drafts in England and don't foreget also the 86th battn was a MG draft2655601-2657100.
Also that eastern draft block only recruited a total of 50 men and they actually produced and hat badge collars and shoulder plus a sweetheart pin all of course very rare