Unusual RCAF Wing

[LuftMike]

This was removed from a BD by my grandfather. Has anyone seen this strange Red pattern to the crown?


Cheers!

[Tod Rathbone]

Hi Mike,

I have never seen red on the outside of the crown like that before. Plenty of examples of the red inside the crown. Cool variation.

Tod

[yellow]

Just out of curosity what is the bullion cap badge to the right of the wing worth in pounds? I realise the caps that which the badge sits are very expensive but what about the badge on its own, any value there?

Thank you,

Steve.

[Allan H.]

I believe that you have a standard RCAF pilot's wing that has had the red details added by hand. I would expect that those details have been added after the wing's manufacture. The fact that this was done to the wing makes this a somewhat unique example and I appreciate getting to see it!

Just out of curosity what is the bullion cap badge to the right of the wing worth in pounds? I realise the caps that which the badge sits are very expensive but what about the badge on its own, any value there?

Thank you,

Steve.

Steve,
Most of the RAF officer cap devices that I have encountered have been executed in bullion wire. Every post 1953 device that I have encountered has also been done in bullion wire. The earlier RAF cap devices were made of metal which simulated bullion work. The metal ones are the type worn during the Battle of Britain. I would value this cap badge at around $20 USD assuming that it is in excellent condition. They may go a little higher in England.
Allan

[LuftMike]

Thanks for the responses guys I knew this one would be a smash hit. The red above the crown has intrigued me from the moment it came into my posession. I don't know if I've ever seen another like it.
As far as the cap badge, it's marked William Scully and doesn't have the regular wartime brass eagle, but rather the "fantail" variant. It's unissued.

[Allan H.]

As far as the cap badge, it's marked William Scully and doesn't have the regular wartime brass eagle, but rather the "fantail" variant. It's unissued.

That was un-discernable from the minimal view of the insignia in the photo. How about shooting a photo of the front and back so we can enjoy it?
Allan

[yellow]

Only ten pounds I know a dealer who wants to buy the one I have and I wanted to offer it to him at a fair price. As a dealer hes looking for 100 percent mark up, I dont think I could replace it for a fiver.

Many thanks for your reply,

Steve.

[Allan H.]

Only ten pounds I know a dealer who wants to buy the one I have and I wanted to offer it to him at a fair price. As a dealer hes looking for 100 percent mark up, I dont think I could replace it for a fiver.

Many thanks for your reply,

Steve.

Steve,
I made a HUGE error in responding to the original question as I had not seen more than the very edge of the cap badge in question. After he explained that it was Canadian maker marked with the Canadian style eagle which makes it more desireable.
When you add in the differences in prices that British items are offered for and sold at here in the USA verses what prices are realized in the UK, you can see a wide range of pricing.
Just for the record, I bought a WWII bullion RAF officer's cap badge for $10 at the last Show of Shows that I attended. I bought it on a Saturday, so it was long after the feeding frenzy was over.
If you feel your badge is worth more than the value I quoted, then by all means, sell it for what you think it is worth!
Allan

[LuftMike]

Cap Badges

I'll show you a selection of cap badges from that particular RCAF frame. The first is the one we began discussing. I can't get a photo of the back right now, I'll have to take the frame apart.


Next up is my RCAF Warrant Officer Visor Cap Badge.....I wish I had the WHOLE CAP! if someone knows where one can be found, pm me please! I've been knocking my brain out looking for a wartime original.


Lastly is post 1953 RCAF officer's cap badge, I don't usually collect from this era, but I've got this, the Other Rank's Brass badge and a set of qualification wings.

[yellow]

First pic is of a 100 percent genuine RCAF Warrant officer cap eagle which belonged to Warrant Officer G. R. Horton.

Second pic is of one of my favourite RAF badges of all time. The RAF officers beret badge.

Third pic is the cap eagle I am try to determine the value of.

[LuftMike]

First pic is of a 100 percent genuine RCAF Warrant officer cap eagle which belonged to Warrant Officer G. R. Horton.

Second pic is of one of my favourite RAF badges of all time. The RAF officers beret badge.

Third pic is the cap eagle I am try to determine the value of.

Nice badges, but isn't the second one a warrant officer's forage cap badge? I didn't think berets were issued during the "king's crown" era?
I really like your WO's visor cap badge, they are such nice pieces. I think I've got about 5 lol.

[Mike Swan]

Luftmike,

You are correct in stating that the second badge is that of a warrant officer. It's difficult to judge whether it's beret-size from the photo. To the best of my knowledge, beret badges were introduced in 1944. I own a king's crown officer example in metal on a black cloth backing. It is half the size of a normal peaked cap badge. Warrant officers wore the same crown and eagle combination on their forage caps as commissioned officers.

Christmas wishes,

Mike

[yellow]

Hi Mike,

The RCAF warrant officers badge is different to the one you have shown in many ways. For starters yours has a motled finished on the metal that attaches the eagle to the crown, my badge is flat and shows traces of black paint. Second look at the shape of the eagles head, different again. To be honest I wasnt happy with any of my badges until I had one sourced in a veterans lot.

As far as I know four different badges were worn on the beret by officers, probably a lot more for the senior officers. The common seperate crown/eagle (seen on the side caps), cloth (just like the visor cap), the very rare Chaplains, and the one peice gilt badge which I have shown. Sorry that my picture is confusing in regards to scale. Its a very small badge measuring only 4cm from wing tip to wing tip. It took me a very long time to find that one, I think the only one Ive seen.

I thought the beret was QE2 also, yet there are plenty of pics in my books showing the GVI badges being worn. Perhaps thats a question for our resident RAF expert Tony Farrell?

One reference is Military Collectables - Magna Books page 90. An RAF beret dated 1957 with the kings crown badge!

[Mike Swan]

Gentlemen,

This is a very interesting topic.

Regarding crowns, I think sometimes too much is made of the style of crown and the relevant era.

When Queen Elizabeth II ascended to the throne in 1952, and was crowned in 1953, the badge making industry would have begun converting dies, patterns to the St Edwards crown. This would be a massive and expensive task and may have been done over many years. I'm sure servicemen generally wouldn't know or care about the style of crown on their uniforms.

As a good example of this rationale, Victoria Police cap and helmet badges sported the king's crown until 1972. After that, coloured enamels were introduced to the design and the crown was also altered.

Regards,

Mike

[LuftMike]

This is Great! I'm learning so much from this thread, it's been so long since I was involved in a good discussion. So, I guess after world war two the attention to uniform specifications became somewhat less strict? I know before and during the war RCAF regs were very specific. Adhere or be put "on charge" so to speak. And, honestly until now I never knew that the RAF wore berets during the war! Très cool!