Announcement

**Patrick Dempsey** · 08-28-2007, 01:50 PM

Hello Greg,

a friend of mine attended the "War and Peace" show last month and came back to regale me with comedic tales of seeing British Windproof trousers for sale at £200(!) and smocks at £400+

Four years ago, at the same show, i picked up 2 pairs of windproof trousers for £55 each.

I was gratified to hear that all the above items were unsold.

Patrick.

**Gary Cain** · 08-28-2007, 02:20 PM

Hi Greg,

I think what you are seeing is the frustrated TR collectors migrating over to allied collecting because the prices have climbed out of sight and because of the rampant fakery that go's with it. Obviously they think that if they are going to collect allied they want to collect the obscure and rare because that makes them feel special. Sadly that has started to drive up the prices and then of course the fakers get involved in that area as well.

Gary

**GregK** · 08-28-2007, 03:54 PM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for responding.

I have noticed that many TR collectors have been "branching out" of late. I figured that at some point the prices would jump but not at the rate that they have.

It hasn't just been the Polish bits either. I know a fellow (and forum member) who tells me he used to get British wartime dated tanker berets for 20 Euro and other fellows laughed at him saying no one would buy them for that price. Now a balls standard unbadged one sells for over $100.00 (or more) on ebay on any given day. I've seen Canadian MKII lids (with add on nets) selling for near $200.00 on some websites of late!!! Those things sat around here by the pile for under $20.00 for years and no one would touch them. I just don't get the sudden turn around. It's madness!!!

Didn't mean my initial post to sound like sour grapes either. Far from it. The items I highlited are out of my collecting scope as I only specifically collect Polish 2nd Corps and none of these items were for me. I just wanted to point out the sheer madness that seems to have gotten a hold on our little niche of the hobby and wondered if others felt or experienced the same.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Greg

**JEROEN1944** · 08-28-2007, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Gary Cain View Post

Hi Greg,

I think what you are seeing is the frustrated TR collectors migrating over to allied collecting because the prices have climbed out of sight and because of the rampant fakery that go's with it. Obviously they think that if they are going to collect allied they want to collect the obscure and rare because that makes them feel special. Sadly that has started to drive up the prices and then of course the fakers get involved in that area as well.

Gary

Exactly, you coudn`t say it better....

Jeroen

**1stcanpara** · 08-28-2007, 08:28 PM

I collect Canaidan para and BD, so my points relate to Canadian gear.

Your point about the TR collectors branching out is certainly a valid one. I know a local TR collector who has branched off into Canadian, but not becuase he wants to stop collecting TR, but because he wanted balance in his collection. I'm sure that many TR collectors look at the prices of allied stuff and see them as a bargain when compared to a comparable German piece. A nice British para helmet for $1500 seems a bargain compared to the $6,000-8,000 they might pay for a German one. I'm sure many have branced out becuase of necessity as the prices are extremely high. My TR collector friend once priced out a Luftwaffe Paratrooper mannequin for me and the total came to over $30,000US to set it up. Who can afford to spend that kind of money on a hobby?

I also think that the common items have gone up because of a couple of factors. First, the Internet in general and ebay in particular. When I first started collecting, if I wanted to sell something I had to pick up the phone and call my local collector friends or wait six months for the next local show date. Hell, just sending a photo was a pain as you had to have your film developed and sent snail mail. The market was very limited and I had no idea what others in the various parts of the world were paying for a similar item. Then came ebay and digital cameras. Now if I want to sell something, I can offer it to the whole world. Which brings up my next point...

European collectors are very much into Canadian militaria now and they are willing (and able becuase of the value of the Euro vs the Canadian dollar) to pay top dollar for stuff. I've been selling off a collection that I bought over the past year and I would say that about 70% of it has gone to Europe. Most notably France, the Netherlands and the UK. I've even sold a few items to Italian collectors. Fifteen years ago, I could not fathom selling stuff around the world.

Of course, we can't, as collectors, overlook the reenactors who are also partly responsible for driving up the prices of the more common items. The simple fact that there are more people looking for this stuff means the prices will go up. They don't mind paying top dollar becuase they generally only buy one helmet, (or whatever) so it might as well be a good one. There was a box of Dewat No. 36 grenades on ebay not long ago, I think there were 12 of them and a repro box and it sold for something like $3,000 US. The last one I bought about 10 years ago was $30

I collect Canadian BD and I've noticed recently that they have been commanding huge dollars on ebay. Royal 22 Regiment, Calgary Tank, RHLI all went for well over $1000 US. I can remember 10 years ago thinking that $150 was a lot to pay.

Anyway, hope this makes some sense.

Gary

**jim anderson** · 08-30-2007, 09:33 AM

Canadian military collecting is seeing a change. I think renewed interest in our military efforts in the past... Vimy anniversary.... Juno Beach ..... Dieppe... and our present efforts in Afghanistan has led to an increase in the number of collectors in Canada. This is helping to drying up the supply of local items. I've noticed almost nothing for sale at flea markets, garage sales and antique stores and the comment always seems to be " you are the 4th person today looking for that stuff"... T.V. programs like the Antique Roadshow has given people more of an awareness that maybe they should keep grandads old helmet...that being said I'm sure alot of military collectibles are ending up in the trash as our oldest WW2 vets are now passing away and their families are tossing stuff to clean up the estate. more collectors... less stuff .. forces prices up and collectors over to ebay .. this is not a bad thing as it's fun to see items a person might never see in 10 years of collecting come and go. Whether they are original or not leads into experience and knowledge and that comes with time. Newer collectors with deep pockets might be gulled into paying to much in the chase of a rare item.... and that leads us to the phrases PARA.. SAS.. AIRBORNE. are these items really what they say they are and are they really worth that much? I won't pay $500.. $600... $700 for a denison smock when I have a belgian one for $30 that displays like a "real one".
I would rather prowl the flea markets looking for a PARA helmet at a bargin price and never find one than pay $1500 for one.
I do enjoy watching the prices and seeing them rise as everyone that has a collection does. This brings into play trading with other collectors. I don't mind using a trade value of $1500 on that para helmet as long as my TR traders are valued in at their top price... this in my mind brings the values back to what they were years ago ( does that make sense?). Unfortunately for the new guy he has no traders and has to buck up.

I hate fakes and restrikes but they are part of the game.. I think everyone out there has been stung but that being said I'm sure everyone has also had their fair share of great finds and super deals.

It's a great hobby and I'm enjoying it alot and I hope you are too!

**Adam H** · 08-30-2007, 01:45 PM

I think a lot of valid points have been made in this thread. Collectors coming over to the Commonwealth side of collecting from different areas, for different reasons, a resurgence in the interest of the public in Military History and factors such as the internet, ebay etc have all contributed to the popularity and the rise in price of Commonwealth medals and militaria.

There are, of course, pros and cons to this situation. On one hand, prices are being driven up making the hobby more expensive. On the other, I would argue that more artifacts are now being preserved than discarded or thrown out because they are recognized as having collector value. Consequently, there is probably overall more volume and variety of items coming onto the market. However, this is overshadowed by the influx of collectors so in real terms it seems like less is available...in reality less is available to each individual collector as the competition vies to obtain pieces as they become available.

As with many hobbies, when there is big money changing hands, and profit to be made, forgers will inevitably make inroads to take advantage of the situation. We've seen fakes increase in all aspects of Commonwealth collecting, from renamed and faked medals, to doctored battledress tunics and fake badges, both metal and cloth...and everything in between. The computer age makes faking easier and more desirable, but also facilitates the exchange of information for the honest collectors, such as ourselves. We need to continue to use venues, such as the WAF to help nurture the hobby, to protect original historical items, and to promote further research on any and all topics. In doing so we keep a step ahead of the fakers, and learn more about military history, militaria and each other.

I think Jim said it best, to paraphrase. It's a great hobby, and I too am having fun...it's when it is no longer fun, and causes more stress, upset and angst, than enjoyment that I'll stop collecting. I hope that day never comes!

**gzegosh** · 09-01-2007, 02:06 PM

well guys, personally I think you are missing some of the main points..

1. Inflation is a reality...in other words devaluation...money is rapidly worth less everday...and therefore real things...assets have balloned in price..do I need to tell you that? How much has your real estate value gone up in the past 5 years???? probably just as much if not more than the items GregK is talking about....How much have the TR things gone up in value? I have no idea because I dont follow that market..but am sure it has sky rocketed in the last 5 years..probably more than doubled....has it??????....I would love to know

2. Internet is opening the collecting game to more and more people at a faster rate than in the past...there are more new collectors in the game everyday..

3. as time goes by, and more collectors come into the game..less things appear..the good items are gettting scarcer.. medicore items have also been going up....the medal Woyska which was a very easily found medal sold always for $20...and I am talking of a year ago..not five..and now you dont see it going for less than $50..

4. more than 60 years have passed and attic finds are getting fewer and fewer..less finds are available.

5. GregK ..I didint know you had such a good handle on market prices..please post me a list so I know exactly what things are worth...

all kidding aside..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008

this badge has not been worth $200 for a long long time..and I certainly didnt see it for sale at $260....ever....These type of badges are worth around $500 today..that is the reality....at least of today...I dont think you will be able to pick one up for less than $500 ever again..if you do please let me know...

6 if the above badge was worth in your estimate $200 a few years ago
then this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008
selling for $300 was a real bargain...certainly not as rare as the above one...
and therefore probably a decent price for it in our devalued dolars of today

7
as for this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=020

well since I bought it I have to defend it...

1. the PAF eagle patches have been sellling for around $300 for quite sometime
and this is probably the best shape of one I have seen lately

2. the Warrant Officer school in Scotland badge is worth at least 150 if not more..
we are now at 450...

3. the buttons are worth at least $30
480

4. the two valour crosses are about $80
560

5. the id tag...belonging to a pilot...worth at least $20
580

6.the pair of collar ranks are worth at least $40..probably more
620

7. the reunion badge I have no idea what is worth, but I understand it is desired..give it some price of 40? no idea...

660

8 italy star and other odds and ends...30

total 690

thats what I come up with added total---call it too high? take 10% off
now its 620.. approx 100 more than what I paid for it..

in any case the reason I purchased it was that I needed some of the items to complete other sets of mine...

Agreed that these prices are expensive compared to yesterday.,.but we are in todays market...and if you want to play in this market...you have to pay...
and that at the end of the day is the reality we now live in

g

**gzegosh** · 09-01-2007, 04:23 PM

let me modify the worth of the buttons...

here 6 just sold for nearly $80
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=012

so the 18 I got would be worth not $40 ..but $240!!!!!!!!!!
so instead of nearly 700 the grouping could be worth $900
so now at 530 its looking better as each day passes..

I am happy with it, and the price I paid..overall a good one...
and not much of an overprice if any

**GregK** · 09-02-2007, 10:26 AM

Hi Greg,

No offence meant to anyone in my initial post so if you took any then I sincerely apologise.

As far as market pricing goes you can't gauge fair market values by ebay alone. I can, and have seen these similar items at shows and auctions selling for far less than they are fetching on ebay. If you notice the high bidders are none of the "usual suspects" when it comes to Polish militaria. The reason? The "regulars" all know that these prices are out to lunch! The auction that you linked to with the buttons. Like I said...not a "known" collector so he can't be blamed for overpaying. Ebay is NOT a price guide and should never be used as such. I find that 9 times out of 10 these exact same pieces can be had at shows for a fraction of what they're fetching on ebay.

The anti-armored badge did sell for less than half on ebay about two years ago. That and it was far nicer than the example sold recently. I wish I would have saved the page for reference to show. I believe the final price was in the neighborhood of $260.00 USD or so.

Again...these are just my observations and no offence was meant. If you are happy in the end then that's all that matters.

Cheers,
Greg

**gzegosh** · 09-03-2007, 12:58 PM

Greg......
no offence taken
except that as I explained in regards to the items I purchased I dont think they went for a bad price at all..
as for finding them in a flea market or show...well you must go to the ones I dont go to..because I hardly ever find anything thats any good...

certainly not a PAF hat eagle..
but if you do find these items at much cheaper prices...I am a purchaser..
so please let me know...

as for the usual suspects.....I am not sure who are the usual suspects..

I dont think there are anymore the usual suspects..seems like a lot of new people are picking the good things up..

and wherever I go....everyone says the same thing....there are fewer good items............and that may be the main reason prices are going up..

and please show me what you pick up for mcuh lesser prices..as I would be very curious to see examples...and I mean that seriously..
thanks}
g

**GregK** · 09-03-2007, 05:34 PM

Hi Greg,

Glad you responded and also glad that you didn't take any offence. I was actually a little hesitant posting the last link as I knew you were the high bidder but I didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

As far as the "regulars" go I see a few names (about a dozen or so) that usually buy up most of the good Polish militaria on ebay. I'm sure you know the user ID's I'm talking about.

I will post a few lots that I have gotten within the last six months at various shows, auctions, and through contacts. I will elaborate as I post. I must stress that none of the following were directly vet obtained.

1. Patch lot picked up @ a show in June. All for under $100.00

2. Medal grouping (unmounted) to one man. Out of a collection on the West Coast through a contact. Under $50.00

3. Medal bar picked up in May from a coin shop in Thunder Bay, ON. Under $150.00

4. 3 DSK musician collar badge. Actually an ebay score from under a year ago. Purchased for the whopping sum of 5 pounds 71 pence plus shipping.

5. Lastly. GS cap, BD, and patches etc. picked up from a local shop just the other day. The lot came from a collection about 100KM west of here. I have the vet's name and have already spoken to him on the phone. All 100% legit. Price? Under $200.00

It can still be had for REASONABLE prices. One just has to do some footwork and networking. Ebay is not the be all and end all of militaria.

**paulbear** · 09-03-2007, 06:52 PM

There is no doubt the Government has done their job of public awarness with respect to our veterans and the conflicts Canada has been involved in. There are huge amounts of none collectors and new collectors now yes and old collectors fighting and kicking and scratching for the battle dresses and insignias being offered lately and the prices are being driven up and up get used to it can't blame ebay this time

. Actually allot of nice stuff is coming out of the woodwork at this time and those who whine at the prices right now are the loosers down the road just look at the third reich stuff and the same thing that happened there. Ya prices are up but it is still a buyer market or you can throw in the towel and sell your stuff now

**gzegosh** · 09-04-2007, 12:32 AM

Greg
very nice purchases..you are a lucky man.....
not all of us live near militaria shops..
and the only one I know here hasnt had any Polish things for over a year....nothing at all..........

as for the prices..obviously the BD purchase is the steal of the lot..
congratulations..
good items..

the other good one is the orchestra collar badge which looks good compared to the copies circulating..

well done..as I said let me know what you dont need!!

for most of us ebay is the only game in town....or at least the only game where something is coming up all the time...

or at least where you can find every now and then some super items..

as for the usual suspects...I dont know if they are anymore the usual suspects..
I see newcomers..or at least to Polish militaria picking up all the good stuff lately..like the captains rog and furazerka combo......a real nice and unusal set..
that you wont find in any fair..and went for a very hefty price to someone I had never heard of before...

and as the last post says I think picking up the special items even at hefty prices on the long run will pay off...........

anyway..............as you said .as long as one is happy with the purchase
that is all that matters............
g

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