1916 Wilkinson Bayonet Questions

[sb98]

Hi guys,

I recently picked up this 1907 Pattern made by Wilkinson in Feb. 1916. It has what I believe is a Remington made scabbard dated 1915. Is this scabbard "correct" for this piece or is it considered a mis-match.

I recognize some Enfield inspection marks but does anyone know what the "R" mark on the ricasso means? Also, are there any indications that this bayonet was still in service after WWI?

Thanks

[sb98]

ricasso marks

[sb98]

scabbard "RE" marks

[findabetterole]

Hello Tim

Remington (USA) made complete and partial scabbards for the British Armed Forces during WW.1. So it's not that uncommen to see either an 'RE' marked Locket, Chape, Scabbard leather or a combination of those items, or as in your example.. all three. So no.. it's not a miss-match.

The 'R' stamping on your bayonets right ricasso indicates that it is from a batch of bayonets that was re-tested. I've not seem many items with that stamping over the years, so you have a rather unique bayonet there.

The only other re-issue date (after an armourers upgrade) which I can see, is '18' = 1918. You'll see this as the jumbled set of numbers in the centre of the right ricasso.

I hope this has helped you a little?

Seph

[sb98]

Hi Seph,

Thanks for the info, that helps a lot. You have good eyes, I can't make much out of the jumble in the middle. The "R" is a nice extra.

Do you have any recommendations for reference material on British/Commonwealth and US bayonets of WWI, online or book form? I know Ian Skennerton must have a few titles out there on the subject but I think most are out of print and a bit pricey.

Cheers

[findabetterole]

Tim,

Your spot-on about the best books, they are nearly all out of print, and some of the better ones can cost an arm-n-a-leg.

It all really depends upon how far you want to go in the hobby, what you want to specialise in, how long you have been collecting, and what your pocket can afford at any one time.

My first recomendation would most certainly be that of joint authors: Ian D. Skennerton / Robert Richardson # British & Commonwealth Bayonets. It's excellant, and should be in every serious British bnayonets collectors library.

Anything by 'Anthony Carter / John Walter or Gordon Hughes' is well worth snapping up. These were respected authors of the early 70's.

I actually started off collecting British bayonets at the start of the 70's. At that time, one could pick up an '07' quillioned... for just under a fiver. Antique dealers could not get rid of them. At the moment, sellers in Australia are forcing the prices up out of all proportion. It's just senceless. None of my friends will have anything to do with items being sold by Australians. However, I digress.

If you can get your hands on them, for they are fairly rare now... its a set of three soft backed bookletts by joint authors: John Walter / Gordon Hughes. Called: A Primer of World Bayonets - Parts 1 & 2, and, A Primer of Military Knives.... size is about 13.inches x 5.inches with approx 12 double sides pages each. They are quite dated now, but they are well illustrated with line drawings, and the accompanying text is superb. I still have the three booklettes that started me off in 1969.

For American bayonets, the best books are well out of print, and a couple of them, when they come onto the market, normally fetch around the 150.00 to 200.00 pounds mark. However, a very good book (soft cover, 116 pages, ample BW line drawings) to start you off is: 'American Military Bayonets of the 20th Century'. Its still in print, and you can get a mint copy for about 30.00 pounds. The 6th edition was in 2005.

To extend you library and you knowledge of the subgect, visit your local libraries, and search out the military section. I do that wherever I go. That way, if I see a book that interests me, ill take the details.. isbn.no; etc; then visit a book shop to see if its still in print. If not, you always have the book finder services or 2nd hand book shops.

Well Tim, I hope that the above has helped a little. Don't be afraid to ask other bayonet collectors questions. Join bayonets forums (collectors question and answer groups).

Seph

[sb98]

Hey Seph,

Thanks for all the good tips. I was thinking of getting "British and Commonwealth Bayonets" so with your recommendation I'll order a copy. I like the fact that these bayonets have armorers' marks and other bits of info on them that give them some history and variety.

I have a really nice 1918 Lithgow MkIII* rifle. I was a the big show in Pomona about 10 years ago and bought a minty 3rd Military District 1918 Lithgow bayonet to go with my rifle. The bayonet has no oil hole and a WWII Orange Arsenal scabbard, so not WWI, but correct for a re-issue and still pretty darn nice if I do say so (and it was a heck of a deal too!). Soon after I bought the bayonet I hit a table with books and there was Mr. Skennerton. I showed him my new purchase and got a copy of his great Lee-Enfield book. That was a good "collecting" day

Here's some pics of my Lithgow, the only other 1907 I have...so far. I don't think I'll be able to find one I'll like more than this one, especially since it matches a rifle I own. I think it only has the original marks when it left the factory on the ricasso. Would you happen to know what the "P" under bend test mark stands for?

Thanks for the help!

[sb98]

marks

[sb98]

more marks

[findabetterole]

Hello Tim,

The '3' + 'MD' + serial number stamping on your items crossguard indicates that although youir item was manufactured in WW.1, it was re-issued in WW.2. That marking decifers as:
1) '3' 'MD' = Third military district : Victoria and Tasmania.
2) '56187' = That particular bayonets individual serial number for the above military district.

The 'P' is part of a partially stamped inspectors identification stamp. This is normally a stylised crown atop a letter.. itself topping a number.

That's a very nicely kept '07' you have by the way.

Seph

[sb98]

Hi Seph,

I figured the WWII scabbard and the 3rd Military District numbers meant this piece was re-issued. It doesn't look like it ever saw any use though based on its condition and the fact that it doesn't have any armorers' marks added to the ricasso (no call for repairs, etc.). My Lithgow rifle has lots of interesting Australian armorers' marks on the other hand.

Directly above the "P" on the ricasso there's a tiny Australian star with an A inside (like the two in the upper corners of the ricasso). Looking at it under magnification I'm not even sure it's a "P", could be a "T", "I", or "J". Must be an inspector's mark which ever it is.

You mentioned being able to pick up quillioned 1907s for a fiver...and something about Australians. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...2294&rd=1&rd=1

Cheers