1st Commando Brigade - Cloth Title

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When I was a nipper I visted Bovington Tank Museum and from there I purchased a cloth title to this unit for 50p. It must of been around 1986.

I know that there was a MOD clear out of Combined Ops Insignia around this time and I am wondering if my title is an un-issued example from the stores.

The title is blue oval, with red letting, and has a black backing material.

Since I bought that title Ive never seen another anywhere its like they have been all swallowed up into an abyss.

Can anyone post a genuine example from their collection so I can make a comparison. I dont think what I have is genuine but Ive found its always worth asking.

Many thanks in advance,

Steve.

[yellow]

Your probably wondering what I am doing posting Canadian cloth......well the Canadian title is a vet obtained title which I know to be genuine, however it has been worn. Colour, material and contruction are almost identica<o></o>l.........the only difference I can see is that the black back material on the commando title is of a slighty tighter weave.<o></o><o>

Come on you special forces experts...what do you think?!?
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Thanks,<o></o>
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Steve.




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Heres the 6th Airborne meeting up with the First Commando Brigade. Check out the shoulder of the guy in the foreground with the colt in his hand.

Steve.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Hello Steve,

Good to see you around

I don't like shoulder title. It is of a similar construction to the Canadian title next to it and indeed other original wartime titles, but on close inspection I think it is quite different. Look at the tightness of the black backing material, the way in which the letters form on the back is different and I bet this one is made of nylon too!

I have examined an original of this badge and although they may appear quite similar at a first look, if you begin to study them they are actually quite different.

I'll get a picture of an original tomorrow if I can.

All the best, from Jack.

[yellow]

Hi Jack,

Many thanks for your reply.

I hope your not telling me I wasted my pocket money in 1986?

What is the test for nylon? I havent got a black light, will a cig lighter do?

Steve.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Steve, take a small length of thread from the title. Hold it in a pair of tweezers. Light it with a lighter. Watch it burn then examine the remains. Natural fibres, rayon etc will burn away to ash. Modern man made fibres will burn away into a tiny hard black ball of plastic.

Cheers, Ade.

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Ade & Jack,

I took a sample of the white thread from the back of the badge and also trimmed away some of the black backing material.

Using Ades test both the thread and the backing material did not melt both turned to ash!

I pulled the black back material away from the blue felt and there appears to be a layer of glue inbetween, is this consisitent with repros?

What does this mean?

Many thanks,

Steve.

[Adrian Stevenson]

It means it is an old repro

Sorry Steve, I don't really know about these titles, but to me it looks "OK"

Cheers, Ade.

[yellow]

I could of also bought the Combined Ops circle badge from the museum to go with this. Contrustruction was the same felt material bar the background of the badge which was dark navy blue. However one of those would of cost another 50p and I couldnt afford it.

I just spoke with my dad and he suspects but we cannot prove that these badges were donated to the museum as a fund raiser.

Repro or not.......if this is a copy it certainly kicks those modern Indian wool examples into a cocked hat. Clearly intended to deceive.

Lets see if Jack can rustle up a genuine vet obtained piece.

Also, werent these titles worn after the war?

Thanks,

Steve.

[max7474]

Bovington Museum have a large stock of reproduction badges such as these and also cap badges that were made for visitors. I remember visiting the museum several times in the 1980s when they had anodised aluminium cap badges for sale as well. They had literally boxes of the things made by official MOD suppliers to proper specs but they were still contempory made.

Alan

[yellow]

Visited the museum several times and I`m sure the whole lot was cleared out by the early 90's. Nothing left.

I think the cap badges your talking about were genuine MOD stock probably bought by the museum or even donated. Remember the museum has a lot of military contacts. Perhaps it is not wise to tar brush the whole lot as repro......even back in 1986 cloth special forces items were cheap compared to medals, swords, pistols etc, it is only in fairly recent times that the price has increased and we have come to appreciate the world of cloth badge collecting.

If the badges were made for the tourists why such the incredible attention to details to make them look like the real thing...........would it of really mattered to a 7 year old child what the back of one of these badges looked like? Chances are he would probably still of coughed up the 50p.

I remember in the same year I was buying WW2 RAF pilot wings for 50p each from a tailors shop opposite Newark Castle..........maybe Ade remembers the shop?

Ive been told that even some of the modern army stores hold items that date from WW2.

Steve.

[max7474]

Visited the museum several times and I`m sure the whole lot was cleared out by the early 90's. Nothing left.

I think the cap badges your talking about were genuine MOD stock probabably bought by the museum or even donated. Remember the museum has a lot of military contacts. Perhaps it is not wise to tar brush the whole lot as repro......even back in 1986 cloth special forces items were cheap compared to medals, swords, pistols etc, it is only in fairly recent times that the price has increased and we have come to appreciate the world of cloth badge collecting.

Ive been told that even some of the modern army stores hold items that date from WW2.

Steve.

Steve,
You are quite right the cap badges were identical to the official issue ones which were current at the time as they came from the same suppliers. They were contempory a/a issue ones though and not old WD stacks that were 30 years old though. They stilll do a good stock of repro items for the MGC and Tank Corps today.http://www.tankmuseum.org.uk/shop.html

Alan

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Ah now I cannot remember how the badge above was packed behind the counter...........I`m pretty sure I had to point at a board and one of the shop staff fetched the badge. Sadly I wasnt tall enough to look over the counter to see if there were WD stacks there!

Steve.