VC now MADE IN CANADA

[Jean-Loup]

"after all it's the Canadians who've introduced racism into this with English wording on the VC being deemed unacceptable to a large part of its population"

Wasnt the "racism" to have had a medal that was supposed to fit all, but had an english inscription although many potential winners of the award did not speak english as a first langage?

[servicepub]

The Sovereign is the font for all honours and has final say in official Orders, decorations and medals. The Queen of Great Britain, etc... is also, separately, the Queen of Canada, the Queen of Australia, etc... and has final approval of medals issued by those governments. Although for many years Canada submitted nominations for the Order of the British Empire it only made sense to develop a purely Canadian equivalent - the Order of Canada. However, both Orders accomplish the same task - recognition from the Sovereign, through her governments, of individuals who have contributed to the betterment of their communities/nations.
The Victoria Cross was the inspiration of Queen Victoria for ALL of her soldiers, not just for those who were paid by the British government. HM (or Aunt Betty as you so lovingly refer to her) has recognised that her Canadian soldiers should continue, on the recommendation of the Prime Minister of Canada, to be honoured with the VC. The fact that 'words' have changed language is unimportant. The meaning of the words remains constant and the intent of the award is unchanged.
Maybe I am missing something but the uproar against this remainds me of the uproar years ago when the Brits discovered refrigerators do have a place in pubs. Many traditionalists declared the end of the world was upon us when served cold beer. Now try to pry the frosty mugs out of their hands.

[lambstew]

Remember the old addage... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? Apparently some of the forum members feel that it is an insult. Yes, this design has been approved by the Queen. It was not designed and instituted unilaterally with the intent of making a "bootlegged" copy of the VC. I am surprised that the British members of the forum don't feel proud that Canada seeks to keep the tradition and spirit of the VC alive within the Canadian medals and honours system. I guess some of them would prefer that we remove the Union Jack from the corners of several of our provincial flags as well... apparently we are not entitled to retain and display vestiges of our heritage. What's next? Perhaps the Queen's image shouldn't be on our coins either...

I think this is a matter of not seeing the forest because of the trees from some of the negative comments I've read.

I think the simplest way of viewing the new 'Canadian VC' is quite simply as a tribute to our historical and military ties with Britain and all those Canadians who either fought along side, with, attached or were loaned to the British armed forces throughout history.

My personal thoughts on this as a born and bred Canadian with an interest in military history is pride. Pride that the top medal for heroism will be kept not only to honour those in the future who are so deserving, but also to keep alive the memory and honour those who received the VC while serving alongside Britain in various conflicts, thus preserving an important tie with our military past.

It would have been easier to say to hell with any more symbolic ties with 'that Island' across the Pond and create something altogether new from scratch. I think that our members in Britain should instead be proud that the Canadian gov't has instead opted to keep a little piece of a proud and honourable military tradition alive instead.

Here's raising a glass to preserving an important tie to the 'Island' across the Pond -

----CHEERS!------

Regards,

Konrad

[Darrell]

Again, I'll say it. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the reason of this change or modification is due to Political Correctness. If some Frenchman wasn't yelling it's written in English, or some Muslim crying it's not in his language, some other cultural group would be suing the government.

Personally, I'm a traditionist and don't like things changed for political reasons. Guaranteed that's what this is all about. Hardly anything to do with wanting to create something "unique" to Canadians.

[Tony Farrell]

Exactly! The words 'For Valour' have been, and probably will be forever associated with the VC. Not Pro Valore, For Valour. It does exactly what it says on the tin and it should be left well alone. It was good enough for Muslims, Hindus, Kiwis, Aussies, Canadians, Irishmen, Trogs and even South Africans - a nation known for bi-lingual awards.

I'm tired of this constant re-branding and diversity reflection that seems endemic. There's absolutely no need for it and it just undermines things. That's generally the UK perspective anyhow - and it seems to be more of a British malaise than anywhere else.

The first thing every new CEO or incumbent does is to re-brand. Local councils love it - all squiggles & splashes of gaudy colour that better reflect the 'community's diversity' etc. The Tories now have a gaudy corporate squiggle too - better reflecting blah blah blah. The Home office have sneakily binned the Royal Arms. All the various official armourial bearings on government documents & premises also seem to be disappearing under an avalanche of meaningless logos and mission statements. It's all window dressing and means absolutely... nothing. They certainly don't increase efficiency.

We are slowly - well not even slowly in some areas - losing all our identity and history. The march of political correctness is like a cancer eating away everything with any kind of pedigree. Some things should never be changed - however innocuous the changes may seem. The Victoria Cross is one such institution that is sacrosanct.

So hopefully this will go some way to explaining the rabid vitriol being espoused by some of the Brits. It's not an anti-Canada thing. I'm certain that it's aimed squarely at those who simply cannot leave anything alone without having to make their mark - usually before moving on to ruin something else. And it would appear that the Dominion of the North has more than its fair share of interfering bureaucrats as does the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

As an aside - and for the uninitiated - Leigh's posted images are of a comedian named Al Murray (The Pub Landlord). Murray portrays an over-patriotic, French-hating bigot. Despite looking like a BNP rep, he's actually very well educated and his act is all very tongue-in-cheek. Worth catching.

[findabetterole]

Exactly! The words 'For Valour' have been, and probably will be forever associated with the VC. Not Pro Valore, For Valour. It does exactly what it says on the tin and it should be left well alone. It was good enough for Muslims, Hindus, Kiwis, Aussies, Canadians, Irishmen, Trogs and even South Africans - a nation known for bi-lingual awards.

I'm tired of this constant re-branding and diversity reflection that seems endemic. There's absolutely no need for it and it just undermines things. That's generally the UK perspective anyhow - and it seems to be more of a British malaise than anywhere else.

The first thing every new CEO or incumbent does is to re-brand. Local councils love it - all squiggles & splashes of gaudy colour that better reflect the 'community's diversity' etc. The Tories now have a gaudy corporate squiggle too - better reflecting blah blah blah. The Home office have sneakily binned the Royal Arms. All the various official armourial bearings on government documents & premises also seem to be disappearing under an avalanche of meaningless logos and mission statements. It's all window dressing and means absolutely... nothing. They certainly don't increase efficiency.

We are slowly - well not even slowly in some areas - losing all our identity and history. The march of political correctness is like a cancer eating away everything with any kind of pedigree. Some things should never be changed - however innocuous the changes may seem. The Victoria Cross is one such institution that is sacrosanct.

So hopefully this will go some way to explaining the rabid vitriol being espoused by some of the Brits. It's not an anti-Canada thing. I'm certain that it's aimed squarely at those who simply cannot leave anything alone without having to make their mark - usually before moving on to ruin something else. And it would appear that the Dominion of the North has more than its fair share of interfering bureaucrats as does the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

As an aside - and for the uninitiated - Leigh's posted images are of a comedian named Al Murray (The Pub Landlord). Murray portrays an over-patriotic, French-hating bigot. Despite looking like a BNP rep, he's actually very well educated and his act is all very tongue-in-cheek. Worth catching.

Well said Tony!

Hows this for a new Canadian medal which will please all....... A Maple Leaf hung from a necklace of Garlic cloves...

Political Correctness.... HUMBUG.. POPPYCOCK...

Arms will be issued at 23.59hrs... the invasion begins at 00,10hrs. Tell yer mums we'll be back in fer supper! Oh.. bring yer French phrase books!!!

Seph

[leigh kitchen]

"after all it's the Canadians who've introduced racism into this with English wording on the VC being deemed unacceptable to a large part of its population"

Wasnt the "racism" to have had a medal that was supposed to fit all, but had an english inscription although many potential winners of the award did not speak english as a first langage?

Jean-Loup. how is it rascist for an English speaking country to have medals with English wording?

How many languages should the inscriptions be in, or should they all bear wording in esperanto?

They could have been in Latin, brilliant idea, then only about 1% or less of the population could understand them.

Did or do the various nations of the French empire all speak & read French?


English seems a good idea for wording on British medals, it's a good rule, & as the Pub Landlord says -


"If we did'nt have rules where would we be? -

France, that's where we'd be!"

[leigh kitchen]

........
As an aside - and for the uninitiated - Leigh's posted images are of a comedian named Al Murray (The Pub Landlord). Murray portrays an over-patriotic, French-hating bigot. Despite looking like a BNP rep, he's actually very well educated and his act is all very tongue-in-cheek. Worth catching.

And a great grandson of Thackery I believe?

"Glass of white wine for the lady"

[Tony Farrell]

Wasn't the "racism" to have had a medal that was supposed to fit all, but had an English inscription, although many potential winners of the award did not speak English as a first language?

Initially they would have invariably spoke English as a first language, as it was not until the Great War when the VC 's award was expanded to include Indian and colonial troops. Prior to that date it was an exclusive award to European, i.e. 'whiteys' - and ones under British command.

Prior to this, great care was taken not to offend racial & religious sensibilities with award design - hence OBIs and IOMs in lieu of British equivalent awards that utilised the cross (with its Christianic overtones) as a basic design, which would have been incompatible with (in the main) sub-continental attitudes. The VC was an exception - and no-one had a problem with it due to its esteem.

[leigh kitchen]

And there we have it - it's an award held in such esteem that it should not be altered to suit the ethnic prejudices held by people in a foreign country, who for some goodness knows why reason obviously feel that their own awards lack prestige.

The term Victoria Cross automatically conjures up old images of Indians, Ghurkas, Canadians, African & ANZAC as well as British winners & who on earth would take issue with the award of the VC to such men?

But the VC is obviously not good enough for Canada nowadays unless it's knocked around a bit to comply with the requirements of domestic politics.

That's fair enough but if that's the case then mark Canadian Gallantry with a "proper" Canadian award & in doing so show the respect due to the Victoria Cross.

[Adam H]

[J. McCabe Bell]

Typical Canadian compromise.
Rgds
John (a Canadian)

[ROBB]

Ok everybody ...Group Hug and lets all sing together .Rob.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HooUO-PkG0Q

[leigh kitchen]

"And show the respect diue to the Victoria Cross"?

OK mate, your eloquence in commenting on British standards of dentistry & brilliant tactical use of smileys have almost swayed me, but not quite..........do we agree to differ?

[Adam H]

I'm just tired of the issue and the pointless attacks on Canadian culture, nothing more. My "dentist" comment was merely tongue-in-cheek in response to those who felt the need to render their biased, insulting and uninformed judgment on Canada/Canadians, which had nothing to do with the topic at hand. In hindsight, I would have been wise to have not stooped to this level and allowed myself to let my emotions drag me into the mud with others.

I don't pretend to know what living in the UK is like and would not dream of commenting on your domestic affairs or issues that are contentious to you. I think common courtesy between members from different countries would go a long way.

Everyone is of course welcome to their opinion on the subject. I don't personally see the medal from the point of view of some here, and vice versa I am sure. And that's fine.

What I don't like is when people, who, out of frustration or for whatever reasons they may have, choose to make comments that they should know would be interpreted as slanderous and insulting. After all no country, region or individual is perfect...

To me this has entirely been a respect issue, and I don't think that some members have afforded that unto others.