$30 Victory Medal Tops $6,000 USD

[RoyA]

Insanity...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270090871935

[aeroraider]

2 Construction Battalion

According to "For My Country" Canada's "Black Battalion" recruited 700 soldiers and sent 598 to England. I believe this is a world record price for a single victory medal!

[pylon1357]

More of Mr. Thomson's handy work. This guy bids up the prices of medals using others peoples money. I have been watching this guy and I have really become to dislike him greatly. Very misguided individual IMHO.

[Darrell]

I linked this story earlier this AM. The other issue is a down and out NDP dweeb who wants to instutute a Canadian Stolen Valour Act.

[peter monahan]

Why would you dislike someone who's saving for museum's (and Canadians) medals which the government hasn't the money or interest to buy and preserve? Were you hoping to buy it ? And I don't mean that as any kind of dig, I just don't understand why you're bothered by what looks to me like a charitabkle act.

I have collected medals in the past and there are lots and lots I'd love to own, but if it's a piece of some significance, like this one, I'd say "Let the museums have it." every time.

My two cents worth.

Peter

[aeroraider]

Interest in the Sale

From a collecting standpoint the interest is in the dollar value of the sale, rather than the historical significance of the item. There were 700 members of the unit (counting those who didn't go overseas) and most would have received a war and victory medal. This would suggest that approximately 1200 individual medals were issued to the unit making medals to the unit scarce, but not rare. I agree that value is up to the purchaser, but in this case the group that purchased the medal paid a horrendous amount. All medals have a historical significance of some sort, but there must be reasonable limits to what governments or groups choose to purchase. It is kind of like watching a charitable group pay 1 million dollars for a second hand van to deliver soup to the homeless shelter. I applaud the cause but question the cost.

[Darrell]

By any chance the guy that did the bidding work for the Government?

[Greeves]

Why would you dislike someone who's saving for museum's (and Canadians) medals which the government hasn't the money or interest to buy and preserve? Were you hoping to buy it ? And I don't mean that as any kind of dig, I just don't understand why you're bothered by what looks to me like a charitabkle act.

I have collected medals in the past and there are lots and lots I'd love to own, but if it's a piece of some significance, like this one, I'd say "Let the museums have it." every time.

My two cents worth.

Peter

Peter you make a very good point - but the issue that many of us have with Thomson is that he is also a publicity hound. Basically, this Victory medal had a value of about $75.00 at the most (more than a usual VM as it was issued to a fairly scarce battalion) yet it goes for an astronomical sum and why? Because this guy goes to the press and makes a big stink - tars and feathers the collecting community in general for being profiteers - and bids up items such as memorial crosses and this VM to several times their value. Then he solicits donations from others to pay for these items. If he was a truly altruistic individual he would keep his mouth shut, then win the items at a more realistic price on ebay, pay for them himself, and make an anonymous donation to the institution or the family. The irony of this is, that if he had followed those steps, the Black Cultural Society in Halifax could have had this medal for under $100.00. It's them that I feel badly for because, yes, it will make an excellent addition to their collection as an important part of Canadian Black history.

So Peter, I do not disagree with your statement at all - but I do disagree with Thomson and his methods - and the way that he denigrates medal collectors. He should ask himself: how did these medals leave the family in the first place? Then he should see the efforts that most of the collecting community go to in researching these individual and remembering their service to our country. Far more effort, I would argue, then the government or the musuems do. Go to the National War Museum in Ottawa - you'll see the VC groups, the DCM, MM and bar groups, but how many single Victory Medals, or simple WW1 trios will you see? Not many, I'd argue, they don't have the space, nor the desire to research and display these "mundane" objects. But to most medal collectors, the services of the soldiers who received the basic WW1 pair were no less valuable then the soldier who won the VC. There are museums that are exceptions to this rule - but what I say holds true for the majority. People like Mr Thomson and Mr Stoffer are uninformed publicity hounds - their "altruism" sits falsely with me.

Rant over,

[Adam H]

This affair was entirely scandalous and distasteful on all levels.

Geoff's points should be heeded. This "Mr. Thompson" is irretrievably misguided, a complete publicity seeker and does far more damage to all parties than good. He has created a burden of debt for the Black Cultural Association, more negative feelings towards medal collectors who seek to preserve history, and has erroneously elevated an insignificant medal to what amounts to a cultural icon.

Museums certainly have their place, but there is neither the interest, nor the funding to provide display space, or even proper preservation for the majority of medals and other military relics. Thompson and his ilk fail to understand that, in general, collectors view themselves as temporary custodians to the items in their collection. Collectors preserve the memory of these men...when families choose not to. Without collectors, thousands of stories would be left untold...and medals and other items would have ended up either in the trash or left in some attic, their significance lost to time.

The belief that ALL medals belongs in museums is laughable, for the reasons I mention above, but also because many museums sell or trade off their holdings (sometimes not quite legally) unbeknownst to the original donors of the items. I have personal knowledge of this occuring from several museums, including the CWM.

Unless collectors can make a convincing public response to Thompson's lunacy, fools like Stoffer may be sounding the death knell of a hobby that does far more to protect and preserve military history than it does harm.

[Greg Kubasek]

My question would be who, who are the other people that ended up bidding up this item so high?

[peter monahan]

Geoff

Points well made. Not a rant at all. I wasn't aware of Mr. T's history on these things. As my learned father says, it is possible to do a good things for bad reasons and this sounds like a perfect example.

A pity that he seems to be costing the Black Cultural Center more than they need to pay, though Greg has a very good point too. Who bid it up, besides him? And why?

Adam

I don't think that all medals belong in museums: I've bought medals from families and once a Royal Flying Corps group from the recipient, who wanted the money to go see his sister more than he wanted the "worn only on Nov. 11" pieces of bronze and silver. And many many collectors do act as stewards, not owners, of the history. Many also do the same kind of things you're accusing the CWM of.

Museums quite often sell off things which are duplicates or not in their specialty area. Good museums do it legally and using clear written guidelines ("de-accessioning policies"). Bad museums sometimes sell loaned items or sell gifts without doing the paperwork properly which sometimes includes consulting the donor if that person can be found 20, 30, 50 years later. That's usually a result of poor practice and training (or lack of funds to keep the paperwork up to snuff), but rarely malicious or fraudulent.

Anyone making a donation to a museum has the right to attach conditions to the gift: "You're never to sell it, I want my name on it..." . In fact it's the prime reason museums refuse gifts! "No, this woolen scarf allegedly knit by Queen Victoria's aunt will not be in the case nearest the door until the Leafs win the Cup. Sorry!"

On the other hand, once they've donated it, it's the museum's - with the caveat's mentioned above. If someone gives you an old car and you need $300.00 more than 2 cars, you can sell it if it was a gift free and clear. And while that's perhaps in poor taste, it's certainly not illegal and probably not immoral. If it was a gift - tie at Christmas or medal to CWM, then the new owner gets to decide it's fate!

Up to a dime's worth now, I guess! :7)

Peter

[Adam H]

Peter:

I wasn't suggesting you believed all medals belong in museums, but this is the message that Thompson is spreading and that others are getting on the bandwagon about. As he sees it, every medal that comes up for sale either belongs back with the family of the recipient (who probably sold them off at some point), or in a museum. My point is that museums do not have the means to display everything they are donated, and in many cases sit, largely forgotten, in storage.

Having worked for various museums I'm well aware of the policies in place, and don't disagree with your points above. However, I think what is lost on the general public is the fact that simply gifting items to a museum does not guarantee their display or even proper preservation. Thompson and his like-minded cohorts denegrate collectors for preserving history, when in many, if not most cases, they do a better job than most museums.

To Greg:

I don't think it was medal collectors who bid up this medal. Although we can't be sure I suspect it was other institutions and interest groups, or possibly wealthy opportunists that picked up on the media coverage and, having little knowledge of medals, decided this case was similar to the recent attempted sale of a medal of the Order of Canada...and worthy of an expenditure of thousands of dollars. Medal collectors may have paid a premium since the medal is somewhat scarce...but certainly nowhere near the amount the medal finally sold for.

I know collectors that have numerous similar examples in their collections, and they do not value their holdings at anywhere near the price paid for this single VM on ebay.

[Greg Kubasek]

I'm sure you are very well correct. I find it very sad that the dollar value reached such an insane level. If I was the seller and the medal was asheavily covered by the media I would have pulled the auction and simply donated it to the society, but everyone is out to make a quick buck I guess.

[NormandieCamo]

Items to the all black No. 2 Construction Battalion are not easily found. Currently listed on ebay are several items (auctions) which belonged to an officer who served in this Battalion. It will be interesting to see what these items sell for and it's unfortunate the seller decided not to list the items as one group.

Here's one of three group photographs listed on ebay:

[DJT]

I found the thread below interesting. It's more on that Thomson guy.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/28173...lp+me+out+here.