Glider Badge

[gzegosh]

Could anyone tell me why this badge, which is so rare,
only sold for $300 on ebay???
Is there something wrong with it???
If so...what is wrong??
thanks
g

[gzegosh]

reverse

I should add this was sold under Polish militaria on ebay...

[Gary Jucha]

Because ..

Because .. 14 were only ever officially issued .. WITH the combat wreath.(Note the pin holes on the reverse ...these were to accept the combat wreath when rivetted on during production).
.. Also, these badges were not numbered, so people are sceptical of what is "good or bad".

Kirkwood did produce some in anticipation of further awards, .. and some lay disassembled for many years, of which a few have seeped out of the woodwork ... BUT only a few !!

.. So

"Examples" with pins ...
"Examples" with numbers ....
"Examples" made in sterling silver ..
"Examples" that are Non-Kirkwood...

....Are all totally and utterly bad !

Regards

Gary J.

And ... just an addition .. this badge was a NOT Polish "Glider Pilot" badge (There was no such WW2 Polish Exile Forces Badge !) ...

The badge was for Polish "Gliderborne Troops"

[3 DSK]

So is the one below a genuine or is it a copy ?

[Adrian Stevenson]

Posting these two pics for Gary.

Contemporary strikings (Badge and Wreath) - held in store - assembled at Kirkwoods - post war.
Also shown, the 1st stage strike of the combat glider wreath.

[Adrian Stevenson]

2

[gzegosh]

Nice posting Adrian!!
many thanks...
as I suppose its not only for Gary, but for the rest of us avid learners as well!!!

and going back to the original question...
Is the first one depicted an unissued original??
or unissued repro?
I also can not seem to understand Garys conclusion...
Its a Kirkwood, its not silver, it dosent have numbers...
but it does seem to have two pins...
does that strike it out??
or in???
thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!
g

[gzegosh]

Adrian
just saw you have over 14,000 postings....
amazing hard worker
congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
g

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi G, thank you for the compliment.

Just emailed Gary to add some more comments as I too need to learn about these badges.

Cheers, Ade.

[Gary Jucha]

Posting

Ade,

There's not too much I can really add to my original comments ...

I was a very very lucky person to get hold of the badge in the scans that Ade posted on my behalf.

This badge was one of the very few that lay in store at kirkwoods from WW2.
It was assembled from original contemporary strikings of the badge using the original technique.
.. I knew that I would never be able to get hold of one of the 14 original issue, and this is "as really close as you will get".
.. I also managed to get hold of one of the combat wreath's in it's "1st strike" state ... which adds a nice touch to the badge.

.. So that's really about it !

Regards

Gary J.

I should note that the badge has a certain amount of oxidation to the white metal area, and so originally would have been a more "silver" colour ..

[Gary Jucha]

Good

Greg,
The only thing that caught my eye was the roughness of the cast on the rear of the badge, .. as I believe these were die struck (Note the smoothness on the rear of the badge Ade posted on my behalf).
.. Again !! it is a real pitfall area, ... and I only accepted my badge as I knew 100% that it came from the original Kirkwood Stock.

Regards

Gary J.

Nice posting Adrian!!
many thanks...
as I suppose its not only for Gary, but for the rest of us avid learners as well!!!

and going back to the original question...
Is the first one depicted an unissued original??
or unissued repro?
I also can not seem to understand Garys conclusion...
Its a Kirkwood, its not silver, it dosent have numbers...
but it does seem to have two pins...
does that strike it out??
or in???
thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!
g

[Gary Jucha]

Just out of interest

Just out of interest,
One of the modern repro's has appeared on E-bay ... and it is for once being listed as a repro !

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POLISH-POLAND-...em290068397235

Gary J.

[gzegosh]

Gary
This repro does not even come close to what the one just sold looks like...this is a bad repro..and the other is a "good" repro?....
From the front, the one sold, seems quite good...from the back comparing it to yours, the one sold seems to have a very different feel to it...yours does seem much more smooth, very perfect looking .....compared to the other slightly sloppier finish...on top of which there seems to be some glue on it...strange.....

I wonder how many were struck...I am sure there were more than the 14 issued....Where there only 14 Polish glider airborne troops?? Seems very few...
Do you happen to have a photo of one of them?

And then..more questions...always more...never ending...
Does Kirkwood still exist today>? And did you out of a whim go visit them?
And how on earth did u manage to get them to sell you that last glider badge?
I wonder if they have records of how many they made of this one...
If there are only 14 issued...it would make it the rarest of all Polish military badges of the 21st century..................

and would make an unissued one at $400 the steal of the century
g

[Gary Jucha]

Kirkwood

Greg,
Yes !!!!! Kirkwood still exist !!!
I was in touch a few years ago, ... and found out that they had been "cleaned out" in the early 1980's .. Kirkwood infact fashioned many of the Polish exile badges in that period. (I believe that because of their closeness - Edinburgh .. to the Polish Forces then in Scotland, that they became a regular supplier after initial contracts and trial pieces.)

As for numbers of glider badges struck ... well there certainly would have been a contracted number .... maybe a couple of hundred ??? .. and as for records ... maybe they still exist .. but I don't think that they were too over keen when I asked if I could possibly look for this information !

.. "So the story goes" ..... the excess that were accepted by the Polish Airborne .. as with the unissued Para wings .. ended up in a box at the Sikorski. (How true this is, is only speculation).
.. Again, suposidly during a clearout the Sikorski might have passed on a "forgotten" box with these in .... hence some original strikes - non-combat - surfacing amongst the deluge of repro's ... and again hence the confusion as to what is classed as "good or bad".

As for numbers from the "box", ... I have no idea !!!!!!!!!

So, I have followed this trail already ... and believe me it's stone cold !

Regards

Gary J.

Gary
This repro does not even come close to what the one just sold looks like...this is a bad repro..and the other is a "good" repro?....From the front it looks quite good...from the back comparing it to yours, the one seems to have a very different feel to it...yours does seem very smooth, very perfect.....compared to the other...on top of which there seems to be some glue on it...strange.....

I wonder how many were struck...I am sure there were more than the 14 issued....Where there only 14 Polish glider airborne troops?? Seems very few...
Do you happen to have a photo of one of them?

And then..more questions...always more...never ending...
Does Kirkwood still exist today>? And did you out of a whim go visit them?
And how on earth did u manage to get them to sell you that last glider badge?
I wonder if they have records of how many they made of this one...
If there are only 14 issued...it would make it the rarest of all Polish military badges of the 21st century..................

and would make an unissued one at $400 the steal of the century
g

[gzegosh]

Gary
thank you
very interesting indeed........
any idea who the "Polish collector" was??
and too bad they didnt let you get a look at their records
would have been interesting indeed...........
We still havent been conclusive in regards to the one just sold..
sounds to me like we are at a 50/50 situation in regards to it....

Its either very inexpensive or very expensive................
difficult to tell.............

but as a fellow collector says...
the evidence talks against it being right, as it is so rare...
hardly likely to turn up.....

unless of course...................
you are interested in selling yours.????????????????????

g