1st Pattern 42nd Glengarry

[W.Unland]

Hello,

I have had this since the early 70's and have just run across it again.
I believe it is the mid 1800's first pattern glengarry for an NCO of the 42nd highlanders.

The material is a very coarse, almost homespun wool that was originally dary blue, but has faded to gray with natural threads evident. The badge is silver and brass, three piece construction.

[W.Unland]

Here is a shot of the top where it hasn't faded as much due to wearing with the top edges together.

[W.Unland]

And a shot of the inside showing the attachment pin, which has never been removed.

If anyone can comment about era of use I would be greatful. I do not collect these.

Thank you,
Bill Unland

[ROBB]

Could you do a close up of the badge .Rob

[W.Unland]

Here is a close up of the badge.

[leigh kitchen]

The badge has the flat topped Victorian Crown, so at face value was worn from 1881 (post Cardwell Reforms and the demise of numbers in favour of names) but NCOs of the Black Watch carried on wearing the old style badge with "42" in the centre instead of St Andrew for decades after.
<O
Kipling & King 497 shows the numbered badge with flat topped Victorian Crown, KK 656 the version with St Andrew in the centre & the post Victorian Kings Crown.
<O
John Gaylor refers to the badge with Victorian Crown and "42" as being worn prior to 1881, and that it continued to be worn post 1881 by Sergeants of the 1st Battalion, with a Kings Crown version appearing in 1926.
<O
KK & Gaylor state that the yellow metal was gilded.
<O
Is this badge multi – part or are the different components sweated together?
<O
They’re always stated to be multi part badges held together with split pins, I have a Kings Crown St. Andrew centre version that has the different metals sweated together, I’ve always viewed it as a fake.
<O
I can’t tell from the photos whether I’d view the badge & glengary you are showing as genuine but then I’m lousy working from photos..

[W.Unland]

Dear Mr. Kitchen,

Thank you for the information. I will have to examine it a bit more closely. My feeling is that it is original, however; it certainly could have been put together in the 100 or so years prior to it coming into my hands. I have no way to be certain. As I recall It was a gift way back when, so certainly not a dealer put together.

The badge certainly could be gilded. I have been reluctant to mess with it too much as the cap tapes are rather fragile, and I didn't want to do more damage. I will try to get back to you with additional re: construction.

Thank you most kindly for the assistance.

Regards,
W.Unland

[W.Unland]

Hello,

The badge is three part, with the parts joined together by split pins.
The "brass" areas do indeed appear to be gilt. The "scrolls" are also applied pieces attached with pins that can be seen on the reverse. And finally the cloth behind the badge is NOT faded and looks like the top of the cap as opposed to the faded sides.

It is my honest opinion that this badge has never been off of this cap.

Thanks again,
William Unland

[leigh kitchen]

The badge is looking good then - interesting how the centre piece is removeable for cleaning but not the scrolls, seems fairly pointless.

[W.Unland]

Sir,

Would I be safe then in identifying this as a post 1881 model EM badge then?
I notice that the "online" illustrations of the post 1881 badge do NOT have the scrolls nor do the modern badges. Any thoughts? I saw one dealer advertising a similar badge as 1875, but to be honest I haven't a clue. It has the "Egypt" battle honor. When did they refer to themselves as the "Black Watch". I know the "Royal Highlanders" goes way back.

Regards,
W.Unland

[leigh kitchen]

Would I be safe then in identifying this as a post 1881 model EM badge then?
I notice that the "online" illustrations of the post 1881 badge do NOT have the scrolls nor do the modern badges. Any thoughts? I saw one dealer advertising a similar badge as 1875, but to be honest I haven't a clue. It has the "Egypt" battle honor. When did they refer to themselves as the "Black Watch". I know the "Royal Highlanders" goes way back.

It's the badge worn by sergeants of the 42nd. They amalgamated with another numbered regiment in 1881, and "lost" the number in favour of a name, the new regiment adopting St Andrew as a centrepiece to the badge instead of the number 42.

The 42nd had the lowest number within the union of the two regiments & thus being the senior of the two they became the 1st Battalion of the new, named regiment.

They chose to keep the old 42 badge for their sergeants.

It appears that this tradition continued past the death of Queen Victoria in 1901 (after which the crown design should have changed to a sloping sided crown - the Tudor Crown also known as the King's Crown as it used during the reigns of Kings Edward VII, George V, Edwards VIII & George VI up until about 1952).

The variety of Victorian Crown used on the badge is not the usual "big eared" version of Queen Victoria's Crown but a lesser used design worn by a few units and is not dissimilar to the King's Crown, although they are different. This may have assisted in extending the badges life beyond circa 1881 as to the flat topped Victorian Crown could be easily mistaken for the correct King's Crown.

It is possible that the regiment did'nt want to dispose of stocks of expensive badges (being multi - part with gilded components), although no doubt they would have wanted to maintain their "42" in use.

It appears that about 1926 there was an issue of the "42" badge with the King's Crown - perhaps authority had caught up with the battalion (although if that was the case I'd have expected the "42" to have been replaced by St Andrew in the centre as well as the crown to be changed), perhaps the supply of old flat topped Victorian badges ran out & the dies were no longer available or it was just thought appropriate to change to a King's Crown at last.

At some point a version of the badge with King's Crown & St Andrew in the centre has been produced - perhaps this had been worn post death of Queen Victoria by the sergeants of the 2nd Battalion?

About 1936 (I think) the title of the regiment was changed from The Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) to The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) which meant that the names on the two sets of scrolls needed to be swapped around.

Instead of this being done it was decided to dispense with the scrolls - hence the versions of the regiments badges without the name scrolls - however instead of the patterns with scrolls being replaced they carried on in use and appear to have been worn through WWII and in some cases into the 1950's.

Absence of the Sphinx & "EGYPT" on a Black Watch badge means that that badge was not worn by a Regular Army Battalion.

As an aside, similar badges to those of the Black Watch were worn by The Glasgow Highlanders, who were nothing to do with The Black Watch, (being a Territorial Force Battalion of a completely different regiment, The Highland Light Infantry), & by The Highland Cyclist Battalion, another T.F. unit the badges of these units lacked the sphnx & "EGYPT".

Your badge is that of Sergeants of the pre 1881 42nd, which continued in use by sergeants of the 1st Battalion Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) following the 42nd's amalgamation into that regiment in 1881, and appears to have been worn up until at least 1926.

[W.Unland]

Sir,

Thank you for a most comprehensive, and educational explanation of the use of this badge. I applaud your knowledge, and thank you most sincerely for taking the time to share it with me.

Best regards,
William Unland

[uscob]

Like to have it for my BW Collection.
Nico

[max7474]

For the real Black watch spotter is the fact that there were 2 spellings of Lacessit or Lacesset in the badge's motto. The same design of badge would appear with both spellings. This continued until 1926 when the decision was taken to standardise the spelling with the IT spelling. This is why you should never see an K/C version without scrolls (I thought that this was in 1935 when the regiment title was reversed) or a Q/C version with an ET spelling.

Alan<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

[leigh kitchen]

The "E" & "I" business is a reason that I limit my main British nfantry cap badge collection to ranks below sergeant - I could'nt hack the idea of trying to find and pay for the various sergeants badges with the variations in spelling.
I've got a Kings Crown WWI brass economy on which the "E" has been altered to an "I" by filing or other adjustment, so these things meant something to some people.