1970's Denison Smock

[VPpat]

I'm in the process of putting together a 1970's era Northern Ireland setup, it would include a complete RUC uniform and a Para combat uniform. I'm not familiar with the Para's uniforms especially the DENISON SMOCK. Can someone advise what to look for and the best place to find one that would be appropriate. Also if any other collectors has pics of RUC and Para's working together I would love to see them.

Thanks
pat

[leigh kitchen]

Did the Paras serve in N.I. during the 1970's - post 1972?

[VPpat]

It is my understanding that they started sending para's into Northern Ireland around 1969 to support the RUC. I could be wrong I'm not up as of yet on my Para history.

pat

[leigh kitchen]

Yep, they went over about '69, but I don't think that they returned for a decade or two after "Bloody Sunday".
I may be wrong.

[behblc]

Paras

I know I was stopped by a 2brick2 of pars in South Tryone in the early 1980's.
Poor guys were wet through and carrying enough kit on their backs to live out for months, very heavily armed as well.

[leigh kitchen]

It occurred to me after logging off that I think it was just 1 Para who did'nt return to N.I. for donkeys years after Jan 72, & that 2nd & 3rd Bns carried on with normal roulemont.

[Marc Sherriff]

"The British Army in Ulster" volumes are a good source of images and information.

[leigh kitchen]

Ah yes, got them somewhere - by David Barzilay.
I have a photo book by Leon Uris & his wife somewhere too - some good photos of Paras patroling the Murph, but I'm not sure if they're 70's or early 80's.

I'll dig out "Battle of the Bogside", but I think the photos are more of Green Jackets than Paras.

Possibly some pics in the Osprey oomon modern British Army too.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Pat, you need a 1959 pattern Denison smock. These do come up for sale on E Bay, but please beware even these are now faked. I did a quick search for one for you last night but could not find one. I would expect a value of around £120 to £150 for a decent one. Forum member Guy sometimes has these for sale.

Cheers, Ade.

[Marc Sherriff]

Try this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRITISH-ARMY-PARASMOCK-2-PARADIVISION-1959-PATTERN_W0QQitemZ270058809956QQihZ017QQcategoryZ66 529QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Marc, I did not see that one last night. Looks good

These are starting to be collected more and more.

Cheers, Ade.

[garthbtp]

Hi Pat,

The Denison smock you are after should have a full zip and the makers were usually BMC, Supercraft Garments, H E Textiles, and Compton Webb & Sons.

Most of the smocks are labelled Smocks Denison but some are just labelled Smocks Camouflaged these are still genuine.

Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that Airborne forces stopped using the famed Denison and this was replaced by the current DPM Smock Parachutist in 1977 the change over took some time but was complete by 1980/81.

Good books on the para's in NI are Contact by Tony Clark and Emergency Tour by Brigadier Peter Mcdonald.

Regarding Para Battalions in NI circa 1970s both 2 and 3 para carried on with tour's. The Barucki sanger at crossmaglen is named after Pte Barucki from 3 para who was killed in 1976.

2 para lost many fine men at Warrenpoint in 1979 hope this helps.

Cheers Garth

[leigh kitchen]

Hi Pat,

The Denison smock you are after should have a full zip and the makers were usually BMC, Supercraft Garments, H E Textiles, and Compton Webb & Sons.

Most of the smocks are labelled Smocks Denison but some are just labelled Smocks Camouflaged these are still genuine.

Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that Airborne forces stopped using the famed Denison and this was replaced by the current DPM Smock Parachutist in 1977 the change over took some time but was complete by 1980/81.

Good books on the para's in NI are Contact by Tony Clark and Emergency Tour by Brigadier Peter Mcdonald.

Regarding Para Battalions in NI circa 1970s both 2 and 3 para carried on with tour's. The Barucki sanger at crossmaglen is named after Pte Barucki from 3 para who was killed in 1976.

2 para lost many fine men at Warrenpoint in 1979 hope this helps.

Cheers Garth

I would'nt really class "Contact" as a good book - & neither did Sir John Hackett - I saw a televised interview years ago in which he savaged Clark, advising him that Para Regt Company Commanders do not "crack up" on 4 month tours of duty in NI etc. To me, Clark just dramas up everything for the sake of sales & does the regiment a diservice, but then I was'nt a para.
The film however I like, & I was actually searching the web for a DVD of it last night without success.
The silent mean and moody officer bit is overdone, but overall I found that the film captures quiet, weary, plodding patroling with occassional action well.

Baruki - that was the bicycle bomb death was'nt it?

I was on duty at HQNI when the Warrenpoint news broke. It did'nt involve me at all but it was a bad day.

I think I've got an air photo about 18" x 18" of the camp at XMG somewhere, may be of interest.

Found the air photo, I can't quite make out the year it's 1976 or 1986, I think the latter.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Also a smock for sale here:

http://www.blunderbuss-antiques.co.uk/shop/shop.php

Cheers, Ade.

[SHEARING-CROSS]

HI THERE , EMERGENCY TOUR is a great book , as for CONTACT opinions differ ! i think CLARKE who wrote it may have embelished a bit , as Leigh has said and i too remember the debate on tv with sir John Hackett but to be fair i do think the programe was a damage limitation on behalf of the british army as Clarke told of many non ` pc events and drills that took place before the ` proper rules` of this type of conflict were layed down , all i can say is several soldiers who served in the early days say its the most true to life book they have read ,the film is good ,again the officer is a bit too much , but again guys have told me this is the closest there is on film showing the complete boredom and exaustion that made up most of the time out there .
Michael ASHER wrote ` shoot to kill` about his time in the paras in the early days of the conflict , his book again covers areas that differ from official sources things such as going on patrol at night and then looting blown up department stores ,or halting the patrol so they could have a beer in one of the `safe` drinking clubs , having said that Asher is now one of the leading experts on desert travel and has spent much time trying to savage the reputation of T.E LAWRENCE ( ARABIA )
he was the guy who wrote the book on what " really" happened on BRAVO TWO ZERO so im not sure what to make of him ,REGARDS ,MICHAEL.