DPM para smocks

[cbuehler]

Hello all.
I know this is primarily a ww2 forum (or would appear to be anyway), but I happen to collect modern British DPM material.
Unfortunately I do not have a digital camera (yet) and cannot show anything, but perhaps others out there may have similar interests.
Anway, I have 5 modern DPM para smocks and have noted that latest issue types have very small black poppers as opposed to earlier 70's or 80's issue.
The earliest one I have has the early type DPM camo pattern in lighter pastel shades and actually has the old Newey poppers that are much more functional than the later type. I also have what appears to be possibly an 80's version with American style dura snaps that are also excellent. The current small black ones are almost useless and will not hold the crotch flap or pocket flaps when under the lightest pull. I even have one that the former para owner had stitched up the top of the flap next to the poppers to keep it up! I have to wonder if the crotch flaps are of any use anymore.
Also, I have noticed that many more para smocks have been surplused over the past year or two (the used to be quite scarce and difficult to aquire) and was wondering if the Paras are getting a new type issued. The design and material of the smocks hasnt changed since its inception around 1975 (except for the lousy poppers) and is not really as good a piece of kit as the current CS95 ripstop smocks, or field jackets as they call them now, that the rest of the army is using. Also, the the para smocks have shoulder straps and my smocks have the obsolete small rank insignia that is sewn on the right arm below the DZ flash. The rest of the army of course now uses the chest eppaulets which the smocks dont have. How is rank being displayed now?
Does anyone out there know of a current serving Para that might be able to give us some insight on the current state of affairs regarding the smocks?

Thanks and cheers!
Conrad

[Guy]

Hi Conrad,

At one time these were quite expensive and hard to obtain like the SAS smocks with the wired hoods. I think the reason was that they were still current. Also they were very popular with serving service men in other branches. It would seem Infantry Regiments were quite liberal when it came to certain kit (on active service anyway) and many soldiers went through Ireland with jackets and boots other than those issued to them.

As you say the earliest DPM smocks are the nicest with the best hardware. Essentially they are almost a Denison in DPM. As the years went by the colours changed as did the snaps until you end up with a parody of the real thing.

When you mention the Dura Snap are you referring to the Scovill type fasteners found on the ww2 "Coat Parachute Jumper" If so I've had them with these too. They are found on a large array of British kit from the 70's forward so I am assuming Newey Goodman lost the contract (probably too expensive as they worked). The small black poppers you refer to are like a tiny version of the Scovill type and you are right they are crap. They can also be found on Ammunition bandoliers and ponchos.

Although the original intent with the crotch flap was supposedly to hold the smock in place whilst jumping this doesn't really hold a great deal of water. The parachute harness would accomplish that. I think the crotch flap harks back to the old Step In smock idea of having a smock with vestigial legs. One very handy by product of this flap is that it secured the smock in place when backing out of cover on ones stomach. I suspect this was a happy co-incidence and it obviously impressed as the tail has transitioned onto modern DPM items intended for uses other than Parachute Jumping.

I believe there may be a modern bespoke Para smock but am unsure. I will check. I will also look into how rank is displayed now.

Look forward to seeing some photos when you get a camera sorted.

Best Regards, Yours, Guy.

Hello all.
I know this is primarily a ww2 forum (or would appear to be anyway), but I happen to collect modern British DPM material.
Unfortunately I do not have a digital camera (yet) and cannot show anything, but perhaps others out there may have similar interests.
Anway, I have 5 modern DPM para smocks and have noted that latest issue types have very small black poppers as opposed to earlier 70's or 80's issue.
The earliest one I have has the early type DPM camo pattern in lighter pastel shades and actually has the old Newey poppers that are much more functional than the later type. I also have what appears to be possibly an 80's version with American style dura snaps that are also excellent. The current small black ones are almost useless and will not hold the crotch flap or pocket flaps when under the lightest pull. I even have one that the former para owner had stitched up the top of the flap next to the poppers to keep it up! I have to wonder if the crotch flaps are of any use anymore.
Also, I have noticed that many more para smocks have been surplused over the past year or two (the used to be quite scarce and difficult to aquire) and was wondering if the Paras are getting a new type issued. The design and material of the smocks hasnt changed since its inception around 1975 (except for the lousy poppers) and is not really as good a piece of kit as the current CS95 ripstop smocks, or field jackets as they call them now, that the rest of the army is using. Also, the the para smocks have shoulder straps and my smocks have the obsolete small rank insignia that is sewn on the right arm below the DZ flash. The rest of the army of course now uses the chest eppaulets which the smocks dont have. How is rank being displayed now?
Does anyone out there know of a current serving Para that might be able to give us some insight on the current state of affairs regarding the smocks?

Thanks and cheers!
Conrad

[max7474]

The current issue para smock remains unchanged and rank is still worn on the shoulder. They are not easy to get hold of and there is talk of it no longer being issued as the new C95 smock has been approved for jumping in so a specilist smock is no longer required.

[cbuehler]

Thanks for the input! I knew some folks out there have been up on this.
I have been very suspicious of the crotch flaps utility in actual jumping, but can see where it would come in handy when backing out while lying prone. The early dpm infantry smocks had them of course and I have found that they also help in closing the gap and keeping the jacket down in windy weather. These had of course button fasteners instead of snaps.
I was wondering if they were indeed thinking of replacing the smocks with the CS95 jackets as Max 7474 says, althought the Paras have been traditionally loath to part with their distinctive smocks. They even hated to transition from the old dennison type into the new dpm design (which is better in the early form with the Newey or Scovill fasteners anyway), but as Guy said, it would seem as if the latest ones with those useless poppers are a parody only. Still, these are nice bit of kit althought not quite up to par with the CS95 in function and utility in my opinion. (The material is not as water resistant, quick drying or even windproof as the ripstops, but of course they were designed 20 years earlier)
In recent photos of Afghanistan or in Kosovo etc. most Paras seem to be wearing the SAS type windproof smocks with hoods and I cant recall seeing a photo over the past few years in which the Para smocks were being worn in the field overseas.
This, combined with the increase in availability of smocks that were actually issued and badged, leads me to wonder about just how much they are being used these days. Are we going to see the demise of the Para smock as an MOD item soon?

Conrad

[Marc Sherriff]

In a word YES.

[MH184]

Para smocks were worn in Macedonia and Kosovo in 1999.

The ripstop material once washed several times, is just like any other combat jacket really, it's not waterproof or as durable as you may think, the cuff's go on these (fray) very quickly. The trousers weren't popular either in the rip-stop material.

The reason we sewed the 'panty pad' flap up was because it frequently came undone, especialy when dropping your webbing. Did I done it for it's intentional use: there was really no requirement to, I did as the others did anyway. From 93 onwards we adopted a role really riding in CH-47's more than anything or I was on the ground for the 30%.

No it wasn't water proof, but if applicable you'd wear your waterproof under it or some civi equivelant. The thing with these is that it dried quickly apart from the woollen cuffs and the sleeves to an extent I guess. You need a warm scarf with these, as they weren't that practical in the neck area for warmth.

The SAS smock, is the issue windproof smock, similary they called the artic parka the Falklands parka. I had the wire hooded version, which commonly after use and rolling up the hood, snapped in several places. This was a good all round smock, again nice and light and when worn in great.....that dried pretty quick too, wash it several times and the water proofing goes anyway. Some guys used tent water proof spray, but that stank to high heaven.

The combat '95 shirts and trousers were a great addition, they were just copies really of the tropical shirt, with fancy buttons and practical pockets.....nice to have trousers again that were light and dried quickly (you could also iron them quickly).

In Northern Ireland, we didn't mix match issue clothing in the urban quarters, maybe rural patrols adopted different rules, but going on patrol you had to look your best over there, media attention and eyes watching you etc. It was a big issue over there.

Bosnia and exercise: sure 98% you got away with it or was granted to you in my experence only.

I spent 4 years 7 months in the PFA, the rest of my duration attached here and there or sent for durations to places until finally disbandment of the PFA in Sept 1999 when attached to armoured infantry in Kosovo.

After nearly 11 years I had some great kit for decorating the house.


Kr

Marcus

[Guy]

After nearly 11 years I had some great kit for decorating the house.

Great stuff, thanks Marcus.

Yours, Guy.