Are these unit titles from WW2?

[Infanteer]

Last night I purchased this collection of shoulder flashes from a lady who said they were collected by a relative during WW2 who was an officer in the Canadian Intelligence Corps and served in England. They don't all look old to me and the font on some of the para badges are different from what I would expect to see. Any thoughts? If someone wants to see any badge in particular just let me know. They are all lightly glued to the paper backing material but I would be willing to remove them if it will help determine their age.

Steve
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/935287/brit1.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/935287/brit2.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/935287/brit3.jpg

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

They're all original but some are probably not from WW2. With some of the titles it will be impossible to determine their age because they were used both in WW2 and the period after. The cloth buffs will tell you which ones are and aren't I'm sure!

All the Airborne ones are definately WW2 period, so that's a start anyway. It looks like you've picked up a British made US Airborne tab (?) in there too.

I'd like to see a close up of the Commando title though, as it looks a little weird.

Very nice haul!

Thanks, from Jack (off to work now )

[lnijherald]

Steve, I think I agree with Jack but I'd like to see some pictures of the backs.
Cheers, Luc

[Infanteer]

Thanks for the responses so far... here is a photo of the Commando badge and I will add some photos of the reverse sides later.

Steve

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/935287/brit4.jpg

[Infanteer]

Here are some reverse shots....

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/935287/brit5.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/935287/brit6.jpg

[Infanteer]

Any more thoughts? Do they still look good now that you've seen the backs?


Steve

[lnijherald]

Steve:
Recce looks good.
Parachute regiment I'd say early postwar (I've never seen one with a backing cloth before, only glue back/starch ones)
Parachute again I think not wartime, it is different from the few ones I've seen. Perhaps Jack can comment on this one, I believe he has a few.
Airborne looks ok.

In general starch types are ok, muslin backing cloth is a post-war feature. Also a backing cloth glued at the badge (no stitching through it) is post-war I believe. Burn test and black light can also be used.

Cheers, Luc

[Infanteer]

Interesting... I wonder if the officer was collecting after the war as well. Since he passed away many years ago I will never know for sure and can only go by what the family has told me. Regardless, they are good enough for display. Thanks for the replies


Steve

[Guy]

The backs of some of these titles do look a little odd I will agree. To be more certain I would need to handle them but I think Luc is correct here; some pieces are early post war.

It is possible to find war time titles with a re-enforcing backing cloth but it is usually of the "cheese cloth" type with a much looser weave than what we see here on the Para Reg title. This heavy white backing is quite indicative of post war manufacture, it is also found on the back of post war wings (although on rare occasions I have found it on wartime examples too).

It seems that with the cessation of hostilities the embroidery machines were changed almost immediately. If you compare the lettering on one of these post war titles with a wartime one you will see that the stitches in the embroidery slant in the opposite direction. Also the white bobbin thread on the reverse is nylon as opposed to cotton. I have seen glue back examples of this title with no backing and these were the only ways to tell it was post war.

If anyone has any information on the change over of machinery or any pertinent regulations I would be fascinated to hear from them.

Very Best Regards, Guy.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Hello Steve,

Just to add to Luc and Guy's informative posts, I must add that it is very difficult to determine what ones were made during the war and what ones were made after the war. Often the same pattern was in use and didn't get changed for a few years. Also, variants in manufacture between different companies etc. don't help.

What I will say though is that I've never seen the "Parachute" title worn post-1945. The one you have here appears to be a nice original. Also, look at the style of the "Recce" title to the "Parachute Regiment" one - they look quite similar in construction apart from the light backing on the latter. I've owned ones like this before and I know someone else who has the same type of "Parachute Regiment" title with v. good provenance to an Arnhem PoW. Of course I'm not saying yours in definately wartime as it could quite easily be post-war as Luc and Guy have said. But I think it's impossible to know for sure either way?

Thanks, from Jack.

[Infanteer]

Well, if it's difficult to tell the difference between war dated and post war dated pieces, I would have to lean towards war time manufacture as that is when the officer was in England picking them up. Of course anything is possible without being able to question the former owner. Does anyone want to see the rear of any of the other badges or any other details?

[lnijherald]

Hi Steve,
Badges are particularly tricky to date as we have said before, especially if a unit continued to exist without changing designation.
I think we base our judgement on experience so we could be wrong, you are right we can't ask the original owner.

Please show us more, but could you use the "insert link" tab instead for the ease of viewing?

Thanks, Luc

[Infanteer]

What are the A.C.C. and C.M.P. titles?

[Infanteer]

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[Infanteer]

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