Denison from Beltring

[lnijherald]

They were not worn by the 1st airborne,johan

Hi Johan, a big welcome to yet another Dutch collector of British airborne stuff!
It is apopular misconception 2nd pattern Denisons weren't worn by the 1st AB Division; but the vast majority were 1st patterns.
Cheers, Luc

[jelle]

Thank you,

Some great collections on this site,will post some of my own in the future.But howcome a misconception?I have never seen or heard anything to suport the idea of them being used,accept for the usual arguments that there are none in pictures by coincedance and there are not many fotos .Oh,many books,drawings and models,reenactors even museums portray paras at arnhem wearing them.Arnhem ofcoarse took place in 1944 sure they all wore 1944 smocks But this is my believe and i dont want to offend anyone,as i hope to make friends on this site not enemies.The second pattern is still a wartime smock and this one is nice and a good size. Johan[pardon my inglish]

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Thank you,

Some great collections on this site,will post some of my own in the future.But howcome a misconception?I have never seen or heard anything to suport the idea of them being used,accept for the usual arguments that there are none in pictures by coincedance and there are not many fotos .Oh,many books,drawings and models,reenactors even museums portray paras at arnhem wearing them.Arnhem ofcoarse took place in 1944 sure they all wore 1944 smocks But this is my believe and i dont want to offend anyone,as i hope to make friends on this site not enemies.The second pattern is still a wartime smock and this one is nice and a good size. Johan[pardon my inglish]

Johan, welcome

I think the majority of mannequins etc. that exhibit 2nd pattern Denison Smocks do so because they are a much more affordable and easier to obtain option. I'm sure all museums etc. would have 1st pattern Denison Smocks but they are much harder to find and more expensive, so they opt for a 2nd pattern instead. It is a good alternative. And anyway, I'm sure the general public won't notice any difference! It's a camouflage jacket to them!

The 1st Airborne Division did wear some 2nd pattern Denison Smocks in the post-Arnhem/late war period, although 1st patterns were still being worn by the majority. I seem to remember some pics at the back of When Dragons Flew of them being worn by 1st Border.

Thanks, from Jack.

[jelle]

Hi Jack,

I agree that after arnhem second patterns were isseud to replace the lost or damaged smocks or came with replacements,but the picture could you post it?But nice to be here and i have seen some of your collection johan

[andrew b]

Hi Johan

welcome to the forum , here is the photo of the 43 denison label 2nd pattern , iam affraid it is very faded but it is still readable of camera , it is a size 2 and made by John Gordon
regards
andy

[lnijherald]

I have never seen or heard anything to suport the idea of them being used Johan[pardon my inglish]

Hi Johan,
There is a picture of a 2nd pattern being worn During Market Garden in the book "A bridge too far" by Cornelius Ryan, page 127 (Dutch translation). It's the guy lighting a cigarette standing to the right of Lt Pat Glover.
Cheers, Luc

[jelle]

Thanks for the label,very nice to see them labeld 1943.
And funny that you mention that photo,as it is intresting.When was it taken?I presume before market garden becose i think he was wounded and captured and i dont know if he served after that,have to look it up.Notice that the para with the cigarette does not have a wing on his second pattern smock and as this seems to be a practise jump,i dare say he is not para yet.First airborne was back on strenght late 1943 i think. Where was it taken?At a jumpinstruction which can easely mean that the men are from different units even div. Glover is probebly on a practise jump or the instructor.I do not have that picture know,maybe you could scan and post it.But if memory serves me it has one with a parawing two with other unit badge but cant make a id on it.It is also the only picture i have ever seen that connects the second pattern to the 1st airborne in some way.Who will shed more light on this??You would at least have bene the odd man out wearing one.Just my humble opinion

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Johan, welcome to the forum


The subject of 1st Airborne Division wearing 1st pattern smocks only at Arnhem has been talked about many times. I don't think any concrete proof has ever been found to show 2nd pattern smocks in wear during the battle. But I don't see why not. Having returned from Italy many men must had been issued with new smocks.

Cheers, Ade.

[jelle]

Thank you Ade,

I think a lot of collectors and sellers like to keep it in doubt for all kinds of reasons,and on that note i will leave it be.I would like to thank you all for your kind welcome and hope to discus other topics in the future.

[junior]

Hi Johan,

Welcome to the forum!

Nice smock!

Regards,
Junior

[JEROEN1944]

Hi Johan,

Welcome to the forum!

Nice smock!

Regards,
Junior

Hello Junior,

Would that not be a nice smock for youre SAS

Jeroen

[junior]

Hi Jeroen,

If it looks like this one...



@Jelle: that's my greatgrandfather, Belgian SAS'er, I had his whole uniform untill a few years, we burned it, complete with the RMCA body-armour, and I still feel sorry we did it! But now I have some brains, atleast the one you need for collecting and I'm interested in everything that has anything related to the Belgian SAS. I suggest you reading this thread to understand why some people make me feel sad () http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=belgian

@Des and Marc B: I hope you don't mind me putting the belgiansas.com copyright on my pictures?
Cheers,
Junior