General Service Medal Question

[Ciaran Byrne]

Quick Question,
Would a bar be issued to the general service medal for a posting to a theatre that was a theatre of war. For example, India in 1919?

[yellow]

I assume you mean the bar "North West Frontier 1919" for the India General Service Medal? If you were there in the correct time frame, the correct area and served there for the required number of days, then yes!

Just ask if you would like me to list the qualification requirements for the bar NWF 1919.

Normally men who qualified for this medal have a seperate medal index card at the National Archives.

Heres another asnwer to your question:

During WW1 if you spent all the time in India and not in a Zone of conflict the only medal you would be entitled too is the British War Medal.

Sorry, if I have read your question wrong.

Steve.

[Ciaran Byrne]

Thanks for the reply Yellow. What I meant specifically, would be for a trooper of a regiment posted to India but which had not taken part in any action but were merely based in India - Risalpur which I know is in the NW Frontier area but the paticular regiment in question (5th lancers) did not take part in any action.

[yellow]

I`m almost 100 percent sure that no 5th Lancers were entitled to the bar NWF 1919.

I assume your man had service in France before India so would probably have the WW1 trio already.

The only way your man could be entitled is through tranfer or be attached to another cavalry unit on the NWF who did see active service such as the 21st Lancers, 1st Dragoons, or my great uncles unit the machine gun corps cavalry (he was ex 14th Hussars). Or maybe even an Indian unit? Regardless any transfer in regiment will be noted on the medal index card.

To conclude:

To all troops who served:

a. West of India, exclusive of the province of Sind between 6th May 1919 and 8th August 1919, both dates inclusive.

b. Under the orders of general officer commanding the Baluchistan Force on the easy Persian lines of coumminication between 6th may 1919 and 8th August 1919 both dates inclusive

c. In North East Persia under the orders of Major General W. Malleson between 6th May and 8th August 1919, both dates inclusive.

d. In the Kyber Pass, west of and excluding Jamrud between 9th August 1919 and 30th September 1919, both dates inclusive.

e. With Waziristan Force, including those stationed at Darya Khan, Mainwali, Mari-Indus and Kalabagh, between 9th August 1919 and 30th September 1919 both dates inclusive.

Steve.

[Ciaran Byrne]

Thanks! I did suspect that he would not be entitled to a medal for service in India as it was a posting where the regiment saw no action.
He was originally a member of the Royal Irish Regiment whic he joined in 1918 then transferred to 5th Lancers but was attached to a Hussar regiment (it looks like 21st Hussars which is the formed name of the 21st Lancers).
There are no entries for him on the National Archives Medal Indexes. His name is William Deering.

[yellow]

Now the 21st Lancers was about the most depressed regiment in WW1 whilst the war was in full swing in France they were twiddling their thumbs. In 1914 they were in India as a force to protect its borders from tribes who the British thought would be lead by German officers to invade India. As it happened many of the officers got bored of hearing stories about the war in France and so all applied for transfer.....a lot of the senior NCO's also left. Some did stay on attached to other units earning themselves the 15 Star trio and the IGS NWF 1919.........named to the 21st Lancers.

If you man was entitled to a medal it would be the BWM........but you will need to know the exact dates of entry into the theatre.

Your man wasnt Charles Deerings brother also Irish Regiment?

Steve.

[leigh kitchen]

I assume you mean the bar "North West Frontier 1919" for the India General Service Medal? If you were there in the correct time frame, the correct area and served there for the required number of days, then yes!

Just ask if you would like me to list the qualification requirements for the bar NWF 1919.

Normally men who qualified for this medal have a seperate medal index card at the National Archives.

Heres another asnwer to your question:

During WW1 if you spent all the time in India and not in a Zone of conflict the only medal you would be entitled too is the British War Medal.

Sorry, if I have read your question wrong.

Steve.

I might be wrong, but I have an idea that India service qualified for the 1915 Star?

[yellow]

It sure could!

The 15 Star was awarded to units such as the 1st Battalion Sussex Regiment who only served in India and the NWF though out the entire duration of the Great War.

Areas such as the Tochi valley, Barajat, the list goes on...........mostly on the frontiers/borders where the British were struggling with local tribes.

Steve.

[leigh kitchen]

Also Africa GSM, Sudan or Sultans medals or whatever?

Help me out, I'm foundering here, can't think straight (too long on Die Knieppe).
Quite a few of the London Regt got the 15 Star trio & IGSM NWF, Afghanistan or the like did'nt they?

[yellow]

The only London Regiment entitled to the NWF 1919 clasp is the 25th Londons.

Steve.

[leigh kitchen]

So am I on completely the wrong track, or were there a few battalions of Londons tucked away somewhere hot & sunny who qualified for some gong & clasp - Afghanistan, somewhere like that?
Unless it's just the 25th I'm thinking of.
Suppose I'd better find the books.

[yellow]

There were plenty of London Regiments that served in Egypt and Palestine.

Anyone got any British medal groups with the IGS NWF 1919 in it? I have a few.

The 21st Lancers medals do come up. Nice unit that but the 1st Dragoons saw much action.....many of the regiment were killed. My Great Uncle was there with them in that ambush. Two men of his machine gun squadron won the DCM. One of those DCM's is in the Tank Museum.

Steve.

[Ciaran Byrne]

Just as a bit of a follow up to this post, apparently there were three campaign medals in existance for india dating from 1908-1937. I know one was for the NW Frontier 1919, would the other two be for general service or were there other campaigns during these dates?

[yellow]

There are four India General Service medals:

Victoria
ED VII
GV
GVI

Respectively.

To discuss as length the bars for each would indeed be a life times work. The Victoria issue has the most bars. There are books written on each individual campaign for which bars were awraded.

The GV medal has seven campaign bars.

If you are interested in the NWF I suggest you invest in the following book:

AFGHAN WARS : By Michael Barthorp.

'General Service' is a very lose term, nearly every bar was awarded for campaigns, there were no medals for men who sat in billets all day!

Steve.

[Ciaran Byrne]

'General Service' is a very lose term, nearly every bar was awarded for campaigns, there were no medals for men who sat in billets all day !

Steve.

Thats what I was thinking. Thanks for your help on this Yellow.