Question about cap badge manufacturers

[lnijherald]

Hi guys,
I have the impression that all cap badges made by Marples and Beasley B'ham and JR Gaunt London are in fact post-war reproductions. Am I right?
Here's an example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...189729408&rd=1
If not I'd really love to see a picture of a good one!
Regards, Luc

[leigh kitchen]

I'm not clued up on Marples & Beasley, but believed their marking appears on fakes - & that Para Regt badge has a slider......

JR Gaunt B'ham are not necessarily repros, but the company still produces from its original dies - some badges are "genuine", others made later, after the design of badge was no longer in use.

[max7474]

Hi guys,
I have the impression that all cap badges made by Marples and Beasley B'ham and JR Gaunt London are in fact post-war reproductions. Am I right?
Here's an example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...189729408&rd=1
If not I'd really love to see a picture of a good one!
Regards, Luc

M&B are unfortunately a common name used on fakes and best avoided. As far as JR Gaunt London goes the copies have small lettering J R Gaunt. London (the full stop is key!) and I have only ever seen a couple of badges which could be originbal with this mark yet hundreds of copies with it on. At some time Gaunt B'ham die began to be used (1950s, 1960s or 70s there is much debate) so again there are alot of very high quality badges (a lot of yeomanry in particular) with this amrk which may or may not be original but are likely to have been company made restrikes to meet collectors demands in the 1970s.

The para badge is a copy imo. I have never seen a genuine K/C para badge with a slider rather than lugs.

[leigh kitchen]

There should be no post 1980 design badge with the Gaunt London markings.
Para Regt badges & the slider issue have been discussed in a thread on this forum.

[lnijherald]

Thanks for your rapid replies guys, I'll avoid both manufacturers then!

Regards, Luc

[Keith Blakeman]

Hi guys,
I have the impression that all cap badges made by Marples and Beasley B'ham and JR Gaunt London are in fact post-war reproductions. Am I right?
Here's an example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...189729408&rd=1
If not I'd really love to see a picture of a good one!
Regards, Luc

I've got an M & B I consider to be genuine which I'll have to find and post later. The lettering is very deeply stamped unlike the restrikes which are very shallow even to the point where some letters are pretty much missing. Gaunt has been discuseed so often I don't think we'll ever find out about the truth until someone from their company spills the beans. Leigh's explanation on another thread is well worth reading.

Keith

[Keith Blakeman]

I've got an M & B I consider to be genuine which I'll have to find and post later. The lettering is very deeply stamped unlike the restrikes which are very shallow even to the point where some letters are pretty much missing. Gaunt has been discuseed so often I don't think we'll ever find out about the truth until someone from their company spills the beans. Leigh's explanation on another thread is well worth reading.

Keith

Here it is, The Royal North Devonshire Hussars with a deeply stamped M & B branding.

Keith

[lnijherald]

Hi Keith, thanks for showing your badge. Am I right it has additional stampings on the badge itself, just left and right of the slider?

Cheers, Luc

[Keith Blakeman]

Hi Keith, thanks for showing your badge. Am I right it has additional stampings on the badge itself, just left and right of the slider?

Cheers, Luc

Hi Luc,
Yes you're quite right, the one to the right looks like BIRM, the one on the left is undecipherable. I had another of these a while back with the same stampings but with loops rather than a slider. From memory the l/h stamp was something like LAM which made me wonder if it was an abbreviation of Lambourne, another Birmingham maker. If that's the same here, this badge is a puzzle as the slider is stamped like those seen on genuine badges but attached to someone elses' product? It begs the question did the badge maker also supply and attach the slider or was this part of the process sub-contracted out. I find it strange how the majority of Birmingham makers all tended to have the same style of slider.

Keith

[lnijherald]

Hi Keith, that is not the only puzzling thing: did you notice it is cast, not die-struck? That is a very expensive way of producing a badge.

Luc

[Marc Sherriff]

It looks to me as though you have a cast badge that has a die struck crown with slider added.

[leigh kitchen]

To me the badge looks die struck , hollow behind the crown but with the remainder of the design solid to add strength to a fairly delicate design.
The markings on the badge itself look like LAM as in Lamborne & BIRM as in Birmingham - was Lamborne taken over by Marples & Beasley, or did the latter end up with some of Lambornes old dies after demise?

Is the slider attached with silver solder - I can't make it out.
At the moment I'm veering towards struck badge with later addition of slider?

I think that the badge is good, but not sure about the slider being original to the piece - a later addition to an unfinished badge for one reason or another.
I would'nt kick it out of bed at this stage of enquiries.

[leigh kitchen]

How about some threads devoted specifically to one manufacturer & their markings - eg a JR Gaunt thread, a M & B thread etc, to try to pin down dates of use & originality of different styles of markings?

[Keith Blakeman]

To me the badge looks die struck , hollow behind the crown but with the remainder of the design solid to add strength to a fairly delicate design.
The markings on the badge itself look like LAM as in Lamborne & BIRM as in Birmingham - was Lamborne taken over by Marples & Beasley, or did the latter end up with some of Lambornes old dies after demise?

Is the slider attached with silver solder - I can't make it out.
At the moment I'm veering towards struck badge with later addition of slider?

I think that the badge is good, but not sure about the slider being original to the piece - a later addition to an unfinished badge for one reason or another.
I would'nt kick it out of bed at this stage of enquiries.

All,
With regards to this badge, Leigh's idea about a later slider being correct is more than likely correct, as I mentioned earlier I've had another without a slider (It is braized rather than soldered also). The significance of the stamping was more important as it's completely different from that seen on restrikes.

I've other badges both small ones which are smooth backed but with a die stamped crown. One is the Norfolk Yeomanry, the other 13th/18th Hussars (1929/38). The latter has a Gaunt stamp and both are without doubt genuine. I personally think they're made this way for strength, but if anyone has fully die stamped examples I'd like to see them.

Keith

[Keith Blakeman]

How about some threads devoted specifically to one manufacturer & their markings - eg a JR Gaunt thread, a M & B thread etc, to try to pin down dates of use & originality of different styles of markings?

Leigh

I'm certainly up for this. Shall we start with Gaunt as they're the most debated. There are so many different brands of theirs I would suppose the best thing to do would be to show as many different examples of the stampings as possible. The only pitfall I can see is dozens of the same being shown with the inevitable "do you think this badge is genuine" question!!

Keith