Unusual Parachute Brevet

[Allan H.]

I frankly do not know what to think of this piece. It came amongsta large grouping of World War II vintage US army patches.

While I have an example of printed on oilcloth Parachute Regiment formation signs, this piece feels almost like it was painted on, or silkscreened.
My question is to the originality and vintage.

Any thoughts?
Allan

[Allan H.]

Reverse:

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Allan,

While there is some talk of painted/printed/silkscreened WW2 Parachute qualification wings, I've yet to see any hard evidence that they do actually exist. However, there was definately a printed version of the Parachute "Lightbulb" worn in WW2; there is plenty of photographic evidence that supports this.

Your wings, however, I would not even call WW2, even when ignoring the fact that they are printed. The style is very much like more modern wings. I believe this because if you examine the angle of the base of the wings you will find that most (but by no means all) post war wings have a steeper angle.

Other than that, I'm not really sure what to think? They might have produced some current issue wings as printed ones and not embroidered?

Thanks, from Jack.

[lnijherald]

Hi Allan,

Thanks for showing these pictures, it is the first time I've ever seen a printed one. The only source I have found for it is Militaria Magazine No59/60 from July 1990 (red berets in Normandy special), however I agree with Jack that we need some more evidence to be sure.
Regards, Luc

[Para82nd]

I really don't feel good about these personally, i'd pass

[force136]

Printed Proficiency / Qualification or Trade Badges

Hello to all

It is not an opinion but fact that no printed British Army Parachute Badges existed during the war. I would love to see the photo's of personnel wearing a printed light bulb as well. When the 1st Cdn Para Bn arrived in the UK at the end of 1943, CMHQ asked whether the Cdn para badge should also be made in the UK. Someone at CMHQ asked the British about the recent move in 1942 to have all badges made in printed form. They were told that badges such as pilot, aircrew, paratroop and other trade/proficiency badges were not be be made in printed form for obvious reasons. It is difficult to take pride in a sliver of painted canvas. However it was considered at one point and due to cracking, bending, fading and fraying it was not desired to represent a soldiers training, skill and fortitude in such a way. The only reason they tolerated the shoulder titles was due to the economy measures at that time.

This does not mean that at some point after the war, they did not do this. Please also remember that printed badges made exactly like wartime examples could be made into the 70's. A group in Canada had 3 Parachute Battalion titles made by the original manufacturer in the 70's. They are absolutely identical to the wartime 1 Para Bn titles, except for the "3".

My opinion, is that the BPB pictured is a fake and was not worn by anyone at anytime. It is not printed in the typical way and appears to be a crude silk screening. A fantasy piece.

KJ

I frankly do not know what to think of this piece. It came amongsta large grouping of World War II vintage US army patches.

While I have an example of printed on oilcloth Parachute Regiment formation signs, this piece feels almost like it was painted on, or silkscreened.
My question is to the originality and vintage.

Any thoughts?
Allan

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

It is not an opinion but fact that no printed British Army Parachute Badges existed during the war. I would love to see the photo's of personnel wearing a printed light bulb as well.

Hello Ken,

I wouldn't put money on that. I've yet to see any evidence but I really wouldn't be all that surprised. When Patrick Pronk showed me an his original wartime photograph with a Para Engineer wearing a printed "Lightbulb" underneath his Pegasus patch I was truly shocked. I'll PM you his email address and maybe he can send you a scan?

Did you manage to find that picture of the maker marked plastic Parachute Regiment cap badge too?

Thanks, from Jack

[Allan H.]

For what it is worth, I purchased the printed parachute brevet with the gilt buttons that I showed in another thread. It was rather obvious to me that all of the items had come from a British para vet, but I cannot begin to guess from what era the soldier served. There were a number of other pieces including embroidered on maroon "Parachute Regiment" titles and post war manufactured Pegasus formation signs.
As I was buying from another collector/ dealer, some of what he had priced was well above market. The printed wing and the buttons were the only two items that i found to be priced reasonably enough to purchase. The seller had bought all of the items while visiting friends and family in England and had simply brought it home to the states to sell them.
Thanks for the opinions!
Allan

[lnijherald]

due to cracking, bending, fading and fraying it was not desired to represent a soldiers training, skill and fortitude in such a way.
KJ

Hi Ken,
I'm not too sure about this: printed insignia are far more durable (at least mine are in general in a better condition than the embroidered ones. And if printed Pegasus formation badges and airborne arms of service strips were no problem, a printed qualification badge shouldn't be either I guess.

At first I thought it had to do with the complexity of the design and the number of different colours used, but insignia have been made that show many colours so I can't give a logical explanation why parachute wings were not made.
Regards, Luc

PS please note that Belgian post-war wings were quite similar to British and at some point they used various materials. I have seen vinyl on wool for example so we can't rule out that it is a foreign badge.

[force136]

Printed Badges

Hi folks

The info regarding the fading etc. is out of a CMHQ document. The only reason the military went to printed form was to conserve wool. Shoulder patches and formation signs are not the same as qualification badges. That's why in the US Army, rather than create a unique US SSI for para's they went the Army Air Corps route and had it made in silver. The Brits were slightly different, they onyl regarded the para badge as a trade badge. This is why it is embroidered on khaki wool like other trade badges. This is also why no one in the UK para forces got a certificate of qualification like Americans and Canadians, they simply added the qualification to their service book. There is def a distinction between this type of insignia and shoulder badges.

The comments about fading, cracking, bending, fraying etc. were made at CMHQ regarding this matter, not by me. The same comments were made when it was proposed to make printed insignia in Canada. The Govt thought it a waste to send people overseas wearing one type of insignia only to have it switched to another. For sake of uniformity, NDHQ propsed making printed badges in Canada to match those previously issued in the UK. They turned this down for the reasons given above. Apart from not having the facilities to tun out such a volume of printed badges, they thought the printed stuff looked like crap. They also mentioned that when they become soiled, they develop a sheen which makes them indistinguishable at a distance.

All this , including the sources at various archives will be published soon in my book on 1 Cdn Para Bn history, uniforms etc.

BTW, No I have not yet located a marked Brit plastic para badge. For one I do not collect Brit para stuff. I was only relating what I have seen. Should I come across another, def. I will post it.

KJ

Hi Ken,
I'm not too sure about this: printed insignia are far more durable (at least mine are in general in a better condition than the embroidered ones. And if printed Pegasus formation badges and airborne arms of service strips were no problem, a printed qualification badge shouldn't be either I guess.

At first I thought it had to do with the complexity of the design and the number of different colours used, but insignia have been made that show many colours so I can't give a logical explanation why parachute wings were not made.
Regards, Luc

PS please note that Belgian post-war wings were quite similar to British and at some point they used various materials. I have seen vinyl on wool for example so we can't rule out that it is a foreign badge.