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    #16
    Originally posted by Steve Sherlock View Post
    Recently I heard an interview with the author of "Blitzed". This guy has done serious research, perhaps more than anyone else has done. So, before you discredit his thesis, read the book and check his sources.

    Steve
    Steve,

    The author is not a historian. He's a journalist, screenwriter and fiction writer. I watched a few of his interviews on u tube and read a number of articles based on his book. A lot of his comments on the use of Pervitan seem to parrot a 2005 article in der Spiegel magazine. I will reproduce the portion of my book that covered Pervitan later.

    His book got mixed reviews from the history community. The positive reviews were generally one liners like eye opening etc. the critical reviews basically accused him of generalizations, lack of facts etc. The author was out to make a buck, I get it. As one of his critics wrote drugs and Nazis is a double whammy.

    I don't dispute the use of Pervitan. As I said earlier there were issues during the 1940 French campaign that were acknowledged and corrected by the Germans.Ohler like the author of the Spiegel article only mention Pervitan as an issue during the 1940 campaign.Don't forget Pervitan was an over the counter drug and its effects not widely studied.

    In the United States Aderoll a product similar to Pervitan is the drug of choice to treat ADHD in children.

    In reading articles based on Ohlers book it appears that he intentionally or unintentionally gives the readers the impression that the Hildebrand firm produced chocolate with Pervitan. These articles refer to this chocolate as Panzer Chocolate or Flyers Chocolate. Of course this is in fact Schokakola. No Pervitan, just caffeine which technically is a drug and form of analeptic.

    It doesn't bother me if the general public accepts these generalizations at face value. However as a serious collector and student of the German soldier I just want the facts as boring and unglamorous as they may be. I remember one forum where someone stated that the March Drink was Perivitan. Unfortunately the March Drink is nothing more dangerous then lemon powder.

    Jim

    Comment


      #17
      Heres what I wrote in Ruhetag Vol I. I tried to provide the readers my rationale, my sources, my assumptions, and as much scientific and intelligence data available written during or shortly after the war.

      <text>In 2005 an article was published in the German magazine Der Speigel titled, The Nazi Death Machine: Hitler’s Drugged Soldiers by Andreas Ulrich, translated from the German by Christopher Sultan. The subject was the use methamphetamines, specifically Pervitin by the German military. The article gave the impression that the German soldier went into battle high on drugs or alcohol. Here are a few of the statements made in the article. For those wishing to read the complete article it can be found on the internet.

      <indnt> “Many of the Wehrmacht's soldiers were high on Pervitin when they went into battle, especially against Poland and France - in a Blitzkrieg fueled by speed…The military leadership liberally dispensed such stimulants, but also alcohol and opiates, as long as it believed drugging and intoxicating troops could help it achieve victory over the Allies.”
      <indnt>”During the short period between April and July of 1940, more than 35 million tablets of Pervitin and Isophan (a slightly modified version produced by the Knoll pharmaceutical company) were shipped to the German army and air force.”
      <indnt>”Although Pervitin was classified as a restricted substance on July 1, 1941, under the Opium Law; ten million tablets were shipped to troops that same year.”

      <text>I do not dispute that Pervitan was issued to the German soldier, but wonder if the author might have sensationalized the story, just a bit. The article didn’t state how much or how often the German soldier was administered Pervitin. I took the quantities of Pervitin cited in the article at face value and compared them to the German troop strength, to figure out how many doses the German soldier was given. I made the following assumptions in order to arrive at my conclusions.

      <indnt>a). I assumed the quantity of 35 million tablets (17.5 million doses) delivered in 1940 were all distributed and consumed by the military for the France 1940 campaign. I also treated the total quantity as Pervitan.
      <indnt>b). I assumed the quantity of 10 million tablets (5 million doses) delivered in 1941 were all distributed and consumed by the military by the end of December 1941 in support of the Russian campaign (June 22, 1941 to December 31, 1941).
      <indnt>c). Two tablets totaling 6mg. is considered one dose. (Authors Note: This is a fact).
      <indnt>d). I assumed that only combat troops were administered the drug.

      <text>Utilizing data from W.Victor Madeja’s work Hitler’s Dying Ground: Disintegration of the German Armed Forces in World War 2, I calculated the total number of combat personnel involved in selected campaigns in order to estimate how much Pervitan soldiers were being administered.

      <indnt>At the start of the France 1940 campaign the total strength of the Wehrmacht was 6.1 million personnel. I used a tooth (combat troops) to tail (support troops) ratio of 5:1 or for every combat soldier there were 5 in support. Using that ratio I determined that 1,006,500 personnel were actually available for combat functions. Of the total of 160 Divisions in the military inventory only 137 or 86% took part in the French campaign. So I estimated that 865,590 personnel were actually involved in a combat role and administered the 17.5 million doses of Pervitan over a 40 day period. In simple terms each soldier was administered 20 doses over the course of the campaign or one dose every other day. (Authors Note: During my research I discovered that there were many different methods used to calculate the tooth to tail ratio. The 5:1 ratio appears to be the one most widely accepted, especially for the first half of the war).
      <indnt>At the start of the Russian 1941 campaign the total strength of the Wehrmacht was 7.2 million personnel. Again I applied a tooth to tail ratio of 5:1. Using that ratio I determined that 1,188,000 personnel were actually available for combat functions. Of the total of 209 Divisions in the military inventory only 150 or 72% took part in the Russian campaign. So I estimated that 855,360 personnel were actually involved in a combat role and administered the 5 million doses of Pervitan over a 6 month period. In simple terms each soldier was administered 6 doses over a six month period or one dose per month.

      <text>Now just how dangerous was Pervitan. It was introduced in 1938 as an over the counter drug and in 1941 classified as a restricted drug. As my unscientific analysis shows there was a significant decline in Pervitan use between the French campaign and the first 6 months of the attack on Russia. This was due to stricter medical standards being adopted before the drug could be administered. Could the stricter standards be due to excessive use during the French campaign, maybe? So were the dosages given to the German soldier excessive? Was the German practice of using stimulants different from what the combatants of other nations were doing? To the last question both the United States and British military administered Benzedrine to their troops.
      <text>The answer to the first question is found in article titled The Effects of Analeptics on the Fatigued Subject by D.P. Cuthbertson and J.A.C. Knox. This study was dated 1 August 1946, but was actually an update to a study on Pervitan undertaken in 1942 at the request of the British Military Personnel Research Committee of the Medical Research Council. The study set out to determine several points the most important being; “Did analeptics increase the output of work of fatigued men and if so what dosage was required?” The complete report is available on the internet. Several points made in the article are reproduced here:

      <indnt>Symptoms following 10 mg methedrine (Pervitan). The symptoms arising from this dosage were, on the whole, very mild.
      <indnt>10mg methedrine (Pervitan), or 15mg Benzedrine, was found to be safe and effective dose under the conditions described, but 20mg methedrine (Pervitan), or 30mg Benzedrine, was an overdose for most subjects.
      <indnt>Apart from the occasional development of slight headache, muzziness and nausea, 10mg methedrine (Pervitan) would seem to be a safe and effective dose under the conditions described in the present paper.
      <indnt>With regard to the possible uses of analeptics in war it seems clear that these drugs should not be given indiscriminately to large numbers of men because of the wide individual variations in response. Euphoria, noisiness or lack of judgment in even a few sensitive individuals might well upset an entire operation. On the other hand, it is probable that the use of analeptics in emergencies by individuals or by small groups of men, whose reactions to the drug are already known, may sometimes be justified.

      <text>So if the findings of the above study are correct, the German dosage of 6mg was well below what the study deemed to be a safe dosage of 10mg. From the available evidence it appears that the German became concerned about the effects of Pervitan after the France 1940 campaign and directed that its use be supervised by Medical personnel. While I certainly don’t condone the use of drugs it is apparent that Germany’s policies were in line with the other major combatants that used stimulants during WWII. While Pervitan was administered to the German soldier, it has to be pointed out that caffeine was the overwhelming stimulant of choice by the German military. It was widely dispensed in the form of chocolates like Scho-ka-kola.
      <text>Obviously my evaluation and analysis is full of assumptions and should be taken with a grain of salt, as should the Der Speigel article.
      <text>To conclude the discussion on Pervitan I defer to several Allied intelligence reports on its use. While the findings in the Der Speigel magazine article might be shocking to the modern audience, the benefits of using stimulants during the war (if properly administered) outweighed its dangers. The following article titled Stimulants for Members of the German Luftwaffe, Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 5, August 13, 1942 reported:

      <indnt>”A firm in Brussels is reported to be the distributor of the stimulant called "Pervitin" (see page 19, Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 4), (Authors Note: Not found) used by members of the German Luftwaffe. It is prepared in the form of a pellet or pill. The manufacturer is Temmlerwerke of Berlin. The following ingredients are used in its manufacture: phenyl, methylaminopropane hydrochloric, Saccharin lactis, and Amylum.
      <indnt>COMMENT: In this country, "Pervitin" is believed to be similar in chemical structure to our drug Benzedrine. The British consider Benzedrine and also Methedrine to be helpful in temporarily increasing physical vigor, relieving fatigue and preventing sleep.”

      <text>The following article titled Memorandum on the Use of Benzedrine and Methedrine in War, Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 11, November 5, 1942 reported:

      <indnt>”Benzedrine (also called Amphetamine) and Methedrine (German equivalent Pervitin) are substances belonging to the group called analeptics (restoratives). For practical purposes the actions of these drugs are the same, but 1 dose of Methedrine is as potent as 1 1/2 doses of Benzedrine, weight for weight. Their chief action is to stimulate the higher activities of the brain, showing itself especially in decreased sensations of tiredness and fatigue, and in a disinclination and inability to sleep. The administration of Benzedrine does not increase the mental or physical efficiency of a man who is not tired, and Benzedrine should not be taken with this object.
      <indnt>Mention may be made here of the trend of German reports on the use of analeptics. In the latter half of 1941, these reports were enthusiastic, but toward the end of the year warnings commenced to appear, and in the early months of 1942 reports tended to be definitely against their use except under rigid control. The substance in use was Pervitin.
      <indnt>The effect of these substances on troops has now been studied in the laboratory and in the field, and the following conclusions have been drawn by British medical authorities.
      <indnt>(a). The valuable effect of Benzedrine to individuals engaged in war operations is to reduce the desire for sleep, and the fatigue which results in loss of efficiency and makes difficult the continuation of essential duties.
      <indnt>(b). Circumstances may thus arise in which the administration of Benzedrine may be advantageous for skilled personnel when they are severely fatigued and unable to continue at a reasonable level of efficiency without an additional stimulus. Where "Benzedrine" is written, "Methedrine in equivalent dosage" may be substituted except where this is obviously inappropriate. The use of Benzedrine should be confined to emergencies or crises, and it should not be taken regularly. The decision to give Benzedrine must only be made in circumstances when there is reasonable expectation that the emergency will be at an end within 12 hours.
      <indnt>(c). No person whose duties involve the making of difficult decisions, should be permitted to take Benzedrine in a crisis unless he has tested his reactions to it previously.
      <indnt>(d). Benzedrine must not be given indiscriminately to large bodies of troops.
      <indnt>(e). A single dose should not exceed 10 milligrams. A dose of 5 mg may be repeated once or even twice at intervals of 4 to 6 hours. If an individual is of the opinion that a dose of 10 mg does not produce appreciable effects upon him, the use of the drug should be given up.
      <indnt>(f). The administration of Benzedrine should be under the control of a medical officer.”

      Comment


        #18
        I'm currently working on another book that will include an annex on rations that adds to the information published in Vol I and 2 of my ration series. I was able to pin down the contents of the LW Emergency Ration can, at least for a specific point in time. Here are the contents:
        <text>G. Notabsprungverpflegun (Emergency Jump Ration):In accordance with this regulation fighter crews shall be provided with an emergency ration for flights over water (Seenotverpflegung) which consists of: BEGIN TEXT BOX
        <sub>Seenotverpflegung: May 18, 1942.

        <text>100 grams Schokakola to fight hunger
        <text>20 grams package of Chewing Gum to fight thirst
        <text>1 Package of Pervitin with 4 tablets (0.006 grams each) to keep alert
        <text>1 Tube of Sun Screen

        END TEXT BOX

        Notice that each tablet is 6mg or what was determined to be a safe single dose. In my study above I used a figure of 3 mg for each single tablet (two tablets equal one dose). Unfortunately I didn't disclose where that info came from. I believe it was the Cuthbertson report and by looking at some Perviten labels.

        Comment


          #19
          Heres some information I used in Vol 2 of my ration series:

          <text>An interesting side story concerning chocolate and Pervitin was found in an article by Professors Defalque and Wright from the University of Alabama. The article, Methamphetamine for Hitler’s Germany: 1937 to 1945 was a look at the German military’s use of Pervitin during the war. Throughout history countries have searched for that special something, which would give their soldiers an edge over their enemies. Chemicals that could enhance stamina, alertness, and performance, with minimal side effects were certainly enticing. Combining the stimulating effects of these drugs with a popular candy product was not unheard of. After all Scho-ka-kola was a marriage of chocolate and caffeine which continues today. While a discussion about Pervitin is beyond the scope of this book there was an interesting passage in the article which is repeated here: “The pharmaceutical companies continued to encourage the Army’s use of Pervitin. The medical Inspector denied the requests of two firms to add Pervitin to their products such as Energetika (dextrose tablets) and the firm Sarotti’s Mokka Glykolade (cocoa, caffeine, and dextrose)”. I found no information on any product called Energetika. It’s possible that Energetika was a slang term for Dextro-Energen produced by Deutsche Maizena A.G., Hamburg. The firm made a product called “Dextrosin” which was sold to firms to be used as an ingredient in various products. It contained 70-75% dextrose.

          Comment


            #20
            Fascinating information Jim, really enjoyed these posts. J

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by jacquesf View Post
              Fascinating information Jim, really enjoyed these posts. J
              Jacques,

              Thanks! Jim

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Steve Sherlock View Post
                Hello djpool!!

                What prompted me to make my post is that others just out of hand discredited the author's thesis. Some of them just seemed to have a knee jerk reaction that the author's conclusion was incredible because of TV shows [history channel] and such, and even one poster (Verdunklen) even attributes this to "post war jewish propaganda". Thus my post. To all, read the article/book you critique first before you critique it.

                Don't be so quick to shoot down someone's comprehensive research just because it doesn't agree with your pre-conceived notions. Rather, look at it as an invitation to expand your own knowledge upon which you can draw your then informed conclusions.

                Steve

                Hi Steve,

                Its true I haven't read the book. I probably would have used it in my research except both books came out around the same time frame. I chose the der Spiegel article as a lead in to my discussion.
                However in the meantime I have read numerous articles and viewed a few interviews (not the History channel one) based on Ohmers book. Again most of the drug allegations were made in response to the French campaign, which is justified to a degree. However there doesn't seem to be much meat after 1940. In one interview he stated the core of his book was on Hitlers and Morells relationship which I cant comment on.

                I welcome any comments or facts that run counter to mine. I'm especially interested in proof that the Germans manufactured chocolate laced with Pervitan.

                As far as the anti Semitic comments go : there is no place for that kind of talk on this forum.

                Heres one page of the article written by several anesthesiologists on Pervitan. I had the whole article at one time but can't find it. I didnt want to spend another 30$ to buy it again. Note the first paragraph. I believe this article was in response to the Spiegel article and the other articles etc that spawned from it. If I ever locate the rest of it I'll post it. Jim
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #23
                  Possibly there is some truth to the German army's use of amphetamines, maybe there isn't. Being someone who has partial German ancestry though, I find the subject matter offensive.

                  One needs only to view mainstream WW2 Netflix documentaries or read so called mainstream history books or magazines to constantly have the German war effort reduced to a bunch of blood thirsty murderers and racists trying to take over the world. To add insult to injury, now they were apparently a bunch of drug addicts as well.

                  Now personally, I wasn't there to know for sure as to what actually took place in concern of any of these accusations against the Germans in WW2, and perhaps there is a level of truth to some of the claims, but the victors of war write history and portray it to serve their own interests. The victors also cover up their own atrocities and non desirable acts in light of exposing those of their enemies instead, true or not. You don't see mainstream documentaries about the fire bombing of Dresden, Eisenhower's staving to death of German soldiers in POW camps or rampant alcoholism in the American army.

                  Alternately, I have read and watched much over the last few years that contests much of what has been said and written about the Germans during WW2 , that greatly counters the constant negative barrage given by mainstream sources. Do I know if these counter claims are true ? No I don't, but having not witnessed these things personally and observing the victor Allied nations true agenda unfold in this sorry state of a world, do they not deserve consideration, or do we now live in a world where such a thing is reduced to thought crime ? Land of the free, home of the brave huh ?

                  My Grandfather fought on the Axis side for Italy, and my Grandmother was of German decent. I have also met many WW2 veteran soldiers over the years who fought for the Axis cause. One thing I can tell you is that these people came from a generation that held moral family values in extremely high regard, that being said, they despised drug use and looked down on it as being degenerate. I can tell you with absolute certainty that they would have found this thread offensive !

                  How do you think it feels for a Veteran, who fought for the Axis cause to constantly be degraded when they watch war history documentaries, read WW2 books or magazines or maybe who are reading this thread ? But it's become socially acceptable and no one bats an eye. It's totally A ok to disrespect them.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Jim, wonderful information! I enjoyed reading your posts and found it informative and non biased, something that is not done in all historical accounts.

                    I am not sure the last poster read the thread in its entirety/or any of it for that matter..

                    Gary B
                    ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Gary B View Post
                      Jim, wonderful information! I enjoyed reading your posts and found it informative and non biased, something that is not done in all historical accounts.

                      I am not sure the last poster read the thread in its entirety/or any of it for that matter..

                      Gary B
                      Thanks Gary. I try. Regards Jim

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Fair enough, I didn't read it all, but I read and skimmed enough to get the just of it. Performance enhancement / alertness, it was an over the counter medication, taken in low doses and the Allies had their own means of similar as well, blah blah. I'll admit that the meat of the info is not as offensive as the title. Think about how it would fly if the title read " Were the American and British armies on drugs ? " or " were Jewish soldiers in WW2 on drugs ? ". There would be an uproar as to how insulting and / or racist it would be to even suggest such a thing, even if there was evidence, because you know we're all walking on egg shells of politically correctness in that forum. The title reflects the typical tasteless media grab for attention against " The Nazis " !

                        My point is that of your initial approach, as the title is standard typical of the degrading, demeaning and discrediting relentless attack by the media, pseudo history and the entertainment industry against the big bad Germans in WW2 ( as well as the other Axis nations ). Clearly some people find this info interesting, but personally I have to wonder, what really is the point ? Is it simply and honestly to research a specific aspect of practice pertaining to the German army ? Or is it yet another attempt to drag one more skeleton out of the closet of the villainous Germans of WW2, as the title definitely insinuates. Maybe a good idea for a new series to follow " Nazi Hunters " on the Pseudo History Channel !

                        You know, if I had initially been scrolling down and read " Did the German army use prescription medication ? ", I wouldn't have taken it as just another insulting jab at my ancestors.

                        Btw, I ran this by a German veteran in town who fought in France and later Russia with the Wehrmacht in WW2. He said that " maybe it was something that some pilots in the Luftwaffe used, but down on the ground we just drank coffee ".

                        Comment


                          #27
                          First of all, sorry for bringing up a topic from last year but i'd like to add what i know from one of my relatives who was in the Waffen-SS (starting with the SS-VT and then the 1. SS Division Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler until the end of the War):

                          I recently talked to him about it and he said that in 1940 they were given to them but tightly controlled and in small amounts when they had only little or no sleep.
                          And as far as he knows Pervitin was still available but not given out during the Battle pf the Bulge.
                          He said that their medic always had some with him but because of the side effects witnessed in 1940, were only a "last resort" medication.
                          He also said he personally never felt addiction to them in 1940 as they were only given out for one night and the next day and then not anymore.
                          Besides his own experiences, he told me about a comrade who was transfered to his SS Pz Gren Btl before the Battle of the Bulge who was with the Prinz Eugen fighting communist partisans.
                          That man told him about a Volksdeutscher in his group who had to be released from his duties after he had a heart attack during an anti partisan operation which according to the official story happened because he stole Pervitin from the medic and appeared to be on a 3 day binge.

                          I also plan on posting some documents in here a family friend inherited from his grandfather who was a medic in the Waffen SS and apparently has documents mentioning the amount, usage and ordering info regarding Pervitin.
                          So far i only know that it isn't part of every order but shows up a couple of times each year, which tells me that it was indeed a "last resort" medication given out when needed and with strict guidelines after negative experiences in 1940

                          Will update when scanned

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Wrong thread
                            Last edited by JK53; 12-05-2018, 05:18 AM.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Collectors should be aware that WW2 German Pervitin is heavily faked, and fakes are sold to the unwary, the foolish and the naïve on German eBay on a regular basis for up to $300 a vial. Here is a typical listing:

                              https://www.ebay.de/itm/SELTEN-Pervi...AlH4:rk:3:pf:0

                              You'll note that the adhesive label on this common fake is in Spanish, not German. The most common technique for faking Pervitin is to take a glass test tube and stick a label saying "Pervitin" on it. Here is an example of that kind of chicanery, which so far has attracted 11 foolish bids:

                              https://www.ebay.de/itm/PERVITIN-WK2...BBCr:rk:2:pf:0

                              Real issue WW2 German Pervitin is pretty rare.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by SkaraBrae View Post
                                Collectors should be aware that WW2 German Pervitin is heavily faked, and fakes are sold to the unwary, the foolish and the naïve on German eBay on a regular basis for up to $300 a vial. Here is a typical listing:

                                https://www.ebay.de/itm/SELTEN-Pervi...AlH4:rk:3:pf:0

                                You'll note that the adhesive label on this common fake is in Spanish, not German. The most common technique for faking Pervitin is to take a glass test tube and stick a label saying "Pervitin" on it. Here is an example of that kind of chicanery, which so far has attracted 11 foolish bids:

                                https://www.ebay.de/itm/PERVITIN-WK2...BBCr:rk:2:pf:0

                                Real issue WW2 German Pervitin is pretty rare.

                                Thank you for the information. Labels are so easy to fake and difficult to authenticate from pictures or while standing around at shows. Jim

                                Comment

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