Reply to "all has been written" comment

[Mark C. Yerger]

By e-mail I was sent a nice (appreciated) comment about volume 2 of my "Totenkopf" divisional study. In it the individual stated (roughly) "when I thought all had been written there was such a volume of new information."

Effort is easy, but time can frequently be an enemy nobody can stop. But in spite of the fact that higher ranking or other significant veterans are gone, I totally disagree that "all" has been researched or written on MANY topics. The topics that have not yet been fully researched and detailed or to near the limit of completeness possible is far MORE numerically than what has already been done.

What gets written about in documented, researched detail and its quality (or not) on any history topic boils down to surviving documentation and aspects of author effort, nothing else. It does not matter if the subject is a unit, weapon, person, campaign, or battle. Just because there are 25 books on the same topic does not mean any are complete or worthwhile; completeness is not the goal of every author.

A lot is yet to be done on both narrow and larger topics; my general areas are detailed SS career biographies of commanders at all level, award recipients, and other significant personnel. Also the units they were assigned to with detailed explanation, their development, as well as successor and successor data for the diverse reasons they are needed from confirmation of posts to proficiency comparisons.

On the low side estimate a mid-rank SS officer file has primary documents of value averaging 60-80 pages + another 8-10 for his RuS file. Add 1/2 that amount for primary data to include on tangent personnel (predecessor/successor), materials for explaining (proof) of obscure units and other relevant data. Say 160-175 documents per individual plus whatever else can be gleaned via private and multiple other public sources. Sounds like a lot but is not, though understanding conflicting documents, other sources that disagree, etc is a involved so requires effort. And a personnel file is FAR from all needed or all available on units and/or personnel. Likewise the US National Archives is FAR from the only archive source.

Larger the topic, more material, time, and cost involved obviously. These numbers just an average from what was used in my German Cross series that by unit included division and element commanders, Ia, and other subjects needing materials for research. The largest ("Das Reich") had some 125 GC holders + its other data, similar related data being in unwritten volumes. Larger the topic, more needed, more time and cost, but many smaller volumes are easily possible. The number of documents not meant to intimidate, they are actually very small in order to obtain "one-and-done" detail level. It a book's content is complete, other than the redundant and superficial, nothing else will provide anything new other than some images via private sources. And rather than re-hash in further books; other NEW data on NEW subjects can be done. Just a few while sitting at the PC come to mind:


1) The detailed study of officers who held divisional and corps Waffen-SS 1.Generalstabsoffizier (and corps Chiefs of Staff) positions would be approximately 100 individuals, needing only (again, a guess, to do in whatever my detail degree is) about 18,000 documents. At whatever my pace average has been (varies by person) would be done in 12-18 months.

2) As with certain West Point and Naval Academy classes having a large number of significant graduates; a study of the first 3 classes of Junkerschule graduates (Bad Tölz 1934 & 1935, and the 1935 Braunschweig class) that include many award holders but more importantly a larger number of diverse of other commanders and eventual post holders throughout the SS. Off my head some 250 graduates or 45,000 documents and with all background and tangent data (assuming) equal to twice the time of my 2 "Das Reich" German Cross volumes; 3 to 3 1/2 years.

3) Having already written 200 Knight's Cross biographies in books not specifically titled as a book subject, only 260 remain to do the topic in similar detail. Equal documentation needed as the mentioned Junkerschule book. I'd think no reason this isn't done since the subject has been written about since the 1950s but actual researched data is still superficial for 90% of those 260 remaining at best. But with all these projects an ability level required, time, cost, and (at my speed) the 3 to 3 1/2 years to finish. It would properly and completely document SS Ritterkreuzträger after 50 years of books that have not.


4) Helpful if multilingual (reading Latvian) is a detailed study the VI.SS Korps and its Latvian units, surviving materials allowing a full-sized volume of new data that would not duplicate the old Munin Verlag corps study.

5) More individual published KC holder bios are feasible though actual text data on the individual career (in the majority) is limited to 4,000-5,000 words (per longest in my GC series or 3 I did). Other text will stray to a man's commands, their battles, etc. But using all US and European sources enough exists for a "full size" biography volume of new specifics for some, always determined by surviving documentation. Among those is Friedrich-Wilhelm Krüger (KC with "Nord").

6) A 125+ pages study of the 1.SS-Infanterie Brigade (mot) is within my colleague Ignacio Arrondo's volume 3 of our "Totenkopf" study. Known surviving unit and personnel materials in hand shows similar or larger individual books could be done on these units with all new researched data presented;

Kommandostab "Reichsführer-SS (material exists for a huge volume)

As a divisional entity (as per Lehmann or Weidinger); an operational history beyond the superficial Bayer study of the SS-Kavallerie Brigade- SS-Kavallerie Division - 8.8.SS-Kavallerie Division "Florian Geyer" 1941-1945

2.SS-Infanterie Brigade

Begleit Bataillon "Reichsführer-SS

While I've written 6 or 7 books related to "Das Reich" or its personnel, a volume history of the divisional Kradschützen Bataillon can be written with further new data and Ignacio's Panzer Regiment history will contain majority new data beyond what I wrote or was included in Weidinger's 5 volume divisional history.

All the above being an "off the top of head" list without looking in file cabinets. The above excludes SS Main Offices under study or award recipients of "Nederland," "LAH," "HJ" and other units.

I'll admit costs of the 2 "Totenkopf" divisional volumes was the highest of any project I have done as far as archive documents, copies, microfilm; a 4 figure number. But NUMEROUS significant texts can be researched and written in complete detail for considerably less on a diversity of subjects

Anyone thinking "all has been written" is wrong and anyone with similar thought they have no SS book to write is also obviously wrong. Send me a PM and I'll tell you where materials are; just buy them and start.

This whole comment is the same for all Third Reich combat groups but even more so. Over 15 years I wrote 9 detailed books on SS German Cross holders. No volumes have yet appeared in similar detail for recipients of that award who served in the Army, Luftwaffe, or Kriegsmarine. And a detailed Army divisional history (or corps history) has yet to be written for over 90% of formations. All their records survived.

Despite desire to do all the above myself I doubt medical science will allow me to live to 130 and not have the mental function of a cucumber. But as far as what has been written and what remains to be studied with surviving documentation; there is far MORE to fully research and publish compared to what has already be done. Just like I have 10 times the questions I had 30 years ago.


Mark C. Yerger


(with apologies for the rambling of a research-historian)

[Klaus Richter]

Ignacio's Panzer Regiment history???

[Mark C. Yerger]

Ignacio's Panzer Regiment history???

A later study after Totenkopfverbände as detailed elsewhere.

[Mark C. Yerger]

Mark Yerger makes some very useful suggestions for topics that others could write about. It just takes a significant investment in time, money and a thorough knowledge of your subject matter along with good writing skills. Thank you Mark for sharing your vast knowledge!

I don't understand what possesses someone like Mike Miller to post such unwelcome comments as he can't seem to resist doing. This guy is definitely not on the same level as Mark Yerger and I doubt he ever will be.

My point was the diversity of unit and other topics feasible outside the general interests and text format types of Andreas Schulz and other great German actual researchers. As always, anything with a degree insight or depth of thought is ignored or outside the ability of some to grasp (or initiate). "Credit where due, not where not" as Teddy Roosevelt said. The projects listed do take a cost input, magic potions, superficial or non-existing holdings, won't get it done nor will Wikapedia.

My post just an insight as to materials volume, to me low, an idea of cost, diversity of subjects, and most importantly what is there (surviving materials) to complete a list of projects; completely with obvious time required. The list is far from complete, as stated I didn't bother to look at just what I have; but add a history of the SS-Panzergrenadierschule or SS-Pionierschule. Both are feasible, while a study of all Junkerschule cadet graduates being 10s of thousands of men, taking a beyond my knowledge cost and decades for a multiple people effort if cadet careers included. A lot remains, SS, Army, Navy, Luft, for those with a mindset outside the box, focused, of the research-historian type. For a small existing or potential future group of that type it's insight and food for thought. But they should be boxers, not Don Kings.

[Simon H]

Hello Mark,
I agree with your initial statement whole-heartedly. Despite the passing of time the fascination of the subject does not diminish. The challenge is and had always been the locating and corroborating of data. I think that students of history, if I can call us that, may have become blasé about the ease to which material can be produced. In an age where it appears easy to find information without leaving ones armchair the challenge of yourself and all authors is to seek out the material.

I'm sure there are a legion of topics that we might like to see in print, but I do wonder, as time advances has the golden moment been missed?

Kind regards,
Simon.

[Mark C. Yerger]

Simon:

To some degree the passing of veterans and resulting loss happens for any historian, participants input (personal and otherwise) available for the following generation for a limited period. Even interest in WW II, on some aspects of countries participating, was slower to gain popularity. German history interest and recording was more pursued than US though both equal now. Japanese subjects are near blank here in detail but profusely recorded in Japanese with minimal works translated.

As late as the mid-1980s it was often exasperating for me to explain US interest in the Waffen-SS to higher ranking veterans. They saw unit histories only of interest to them as they participated. I sat with a Swords recipient who laughed at the idea about writing his photo/text biography and literally said "who cares about what I did or would read it." Consider my position as I had to explain at length, adequately, why his recorded input and service specifics were historically priceless to record (while nearly losing my mind as a researcher). While he did not feel "worth" and preferred I write about what was more and only important: "his men." While other veterans failed to get him to agree on a separate biography, he replied all I asked (a lot) that was eventually incorporated in a unit related text.

That aspect is gone, and assure you I had zero "down time" and zero "non-work days" while veterans available, higher ranks being oldest passing first.

But on the positive, the increments of records being released, more every 5-10 years, continued. Early divisional histories had veteran diaries and input plus limited archive access that was in most cases native country facilities. But they did not have access to what is available now with basically all materials that survived being available. When Vopersal wrote "Soldaten, Kämpfer, Kameraden" he could not have included most material in my 2 divisional volumes; he had no access to materials I used in Germany and here. And even when veterans survived some groups helped some researchers and not others (there were 2 "Totenkopf" factions).

The list of titles at the start of this thread are possible now, could not have been done 20-25 years ago. My opinion; more of worth can be used though veteran input less (unless recorded by someone). Some biographical corrections, specifics, and other data in my 2 volumes is confirmed by 25 year old notes, letters, etc.

But overall, as a researcher, I can currently do FAR more in more documented detail then when I started. And I had veteran input, classified archives, and public materials from start to now. Some of the best (needed) material is from world changes (other countries releasing material) in the past 15-20 years. With access to all I had 30 years ago, my "Totenkopf" volumes would have had 15-20% less of what is critical data for me. Instead they have it all (and some more).

I vote it is a different "Golden" moment but it requires the same base aspects as always. One must use all, assimilate all, with added time for a larger volume of material to work with. How to determine conflicting data essential as such instances grow with bigger projects. So am not saying it is easy or fast; if it was someone else would have done all my books before me.

But readers have higher knowledge now. That should motivate researchers to progressively improve, do ALL research possible regardless of time or costs spent, and produce better texts in more detail.

A history reader is an active academic; they read to gain and expand their knowledge. Is not like magazines or paperback novels read on vacation. In my opinion, if possible, I need to learn FAR more than the "necessary," the "quick" or redundant. If my knowledge level has not increased, significantly, after writing a book compared to when I started then I failed. I would not want anyone to pay $50 to $100 for anything I have done unless they get MORE than expected that is new and more then they paid for.

Purpose of the thread, again, regardless if US, German, aircraft, Waffen-SS, etc is that some intelligent readers with a lot of books are under the impression "all they can learn has been done." WW II is economically popular, resulting in thousands of books. But those of depth are a fraction and the material exists for MORE detailed books now then any time since I started. I'm reaching to, really, a handful; if someone has been reading about the SS for 30+ years HE is the motivator. Impress him, not the starting reader where the numerical majority of commercial texts are based.

If they have the mindset, patience, drive, and other mindset needed, regardless of their area of interest, there are NUMEROUS detailed books that can be done with many being impossible to do 20 years ago. My list is just some related to SS and the areas I pursue. As I said, figure out a way for my hands to improve and live to be 130 I will do all on the initial thread list. Doubt that will transpire.

But is there any logical reason for some that have NOT ALREADY been done ? Luft, Army or Navy GC holders, or SS KC holders in detail equal to those I've included in various books. Endless Army division or corps histories; all material is there at reasonable cost. And more Luftwaffe unit histories, such as Prien has done in detail.

SS being a "click" and among the most popular subjects; those who want to do a significant SS volume can. Period. A text of significance. As Weidinger, Tiemann, and others always said; if all done right and complete why would there be any need need to do it again ?? We just have a high volume of commercial "do again" with fewer of the effort expended on the feasible "done right and complete" that involves more effort.

I assure you that Weidinger, Lehmann, Tiemann, and others didn't care cared about photos beyond an afterthought; they were writing a book or multi-volume study. Writing a book is the topic.

I have more SS topic choices, all new, than I ever had and all can be done in whatever my degree or level of detail is. So I assume all try expand or advance data and details over their prior book. That aspect or goal easily possible (with required effort).

I am helping 3 first time authors now, a trio among a dozen plus over the years. All starting with a smaller project, all investing needed "obsession," and all are research-historians; they are anal retentive about details. They use all available and probably have more materials than some who manufacture large volumes that add little, if anything, for progressive history readers wanting to learn. And to learn means new data, facts, information. If you already know it you're not learning anything.

Are all 3 struggling, frequently frustrated, and worse ? Yes.
Would it be possible for their families, friends, etc to make them give up or stop their projects ? You would have a better chance stopping a lion with a steak.
I just want (hope) for effort, on more topics, by more or others like me. I'm NOT a writer and never was. I have questions. I find the answers. And I publish the answers to my questions. So need some new people to answer my questions about the initial thread list of topics and others (before I do). My Army book is he same; it's just answers to my questions

Best,
Mark

[Simon H]

Hello Mark,
Thank you for the reply. I was not wishing to be pessimistic with regard to the passing of the veterans. Your reply has put a much more positive spin on the question and I appreciate the effort in replying. Indeed the challenge has got to be for future publications to step up to the plate and utilise all materials available, but of course to also be able to tease out the facts from the fiction - which does appear with the passage of time

Best wishes & continued inspiration to you!
Simon.

[researchbuff]

Mr Yerger

What an inspiring piece to read by someone like myself who is just starting out on your ‘road much travelled’. I whole heartily agree with your sentiments posted. As you said, archives are still releasing sealed data and countries are opening up their collections for scrutiny all the time. Still untapped are the Russian archives in the main, those who are aficionados of the Eastern Front will not doubt find buried treasures there that may throw new light on periods of the war that have only had one version so far published. I found something like that not long ago – a version of events from a Soviet perspective that was dismissed locally as fantasy, but a detail in it caught my eye which reminded me of something I had read before from a German point of view. Sure enough on checking the German version, I got two sides of the same story that perfectly complemented each other, thus the Russian version can now be proved as truthful. Finds like that make me tingle and are still out there waiting for a true student of history to uncover.

The swords personality you met must have thought it quite ironic that his old adversaries were so interested in his war time experiences as opposed to his own countrymen who had turned their backs on him and his comrades. It’s gratifying to know that you seized the opportunity to collect their testimonies for the benefit of future generations – the mark of a true Historian. I take heart also that you are spreading your ‘seed’ so to speak and hopefully we will see this philanthropic work come to fruition under new author names and titles. No doubt you have weeded out those who are just looking for fame, fortune or glory as opposed to those who have a simple thirst for knowledge and a willingness to share their finds with others.

It would be terrific if you could live to be 130 - what a collection you would amass. Live long and prosper!

[John P. Moore]

Some other topics that are worth considering are the biographies of Waffen-SS officers grouped by specialty such as Panzers, Artillery, Engineers, Recon and Flak. This would be similar to my "Signal Officers of the Waffen-SS/Nachrictenoffiziere der Waffen-SS" that was first published in 1995. I got the idea for that book from Mark Yerger's classic "Knights of Steel" publication along with his valuable advice years earlier to contact former Waffen-SS signal officers. I followed Mark's advice and credit my success to him. Unfortunately, most veterans are no longer living, but there are plenty of other resources around besides their personnel records such as Soldbuchs and photo collections that often go on sale. Many times the children of veterans can be especially helpful as a friend of mine who is writing a series of books on the SS Judiciary has found. Completing such quality books takes years of research and considerable financial investment, but the personal rewards at the end make it all worthwhile.

[Mark C. Yerger]

For 2 reasons only I doubt anyone or group will do all officers as a published study, in service detail, by arms branch.

Stating units, posts, etc without explanation is worthless so that must be included. The number of infantry, Panzer, etc would be in the thousands. Same as Junkerschule graduates that I listed as a project but only the early classes that total less than 400 but is still very large in scope and needed content.

With all the KC books written but none including those SS recipients in detail, obviously none had the desire to do those alone even though I've covered some 200.

For perspective, just the approximate 500 Waffen-SS GC holders I covered that took 7 divisional volumes of my German Cross series to cover + 2 Totenkopf volumes (with any stated data explained) took 15+ years to write not counting material acquisition. Those nearly 4,000 pages are nowhere near all the units (less than half), and 500 is a fraction of any arms branch.

My personal peeve or problem with much being done is its superficiality or being redundant. I'd rather 10 specific, detailed, complete studies be done than 100 more of the superficial, incomplete type. For all the "wannabe" books by those actually doing nothing, the size of projects I listed, in detail, would take those devoted to the effort as far as time, costs, and effort needed. The Kommandostab "RFSS" study involves hundreds of primary personnel (in detail intended) and all other aspects. Same with the SS-Kavallerie Division study; even with volume 4 of my GC series covering divisional commanders, Ia, and award holders there are HUNDREDS of other component and Bataillon/Abteilung level not included as out the study's parameters or connected to those I included. So they add to a massive undertaking of similar scope in time, materials, effort, etc.

I'll never see a series covering subjects, in complete detail, covering thousands of a topic. Authors for Biblio's Army General series stopped at 7 volumes in a subject of some 2,000 personnel without detailing/explaining units, commands, etc. Arms branches officers are far more numerically as are all Junkerschule cadets (a 5 figure number).

I'd be happy, as should any reader, if any of those I listed are done to correct level of completeness, rather than some superficial "here are some photos of this" type book that is a waste of paper. To me the idea of any book is to learn, in detail, completely, and also be provided with all needed to understand anything and everything stated. But if any such volumes as I listed are done correctly (in complete researched detail) there will 1 for every 10 "photo book with no research, specifics, etc included" for the simple reason it takes effort and skill to do so. Anyone can just print a pile of photos obviously, it's a no brainer. For all reasons in this thread there are the reasons that completely is done so infrequently.

[Mark C. Yerger]

Mr Yerger

What an inspiring piece to read by someone like myself who is just starting out on your ‘road much travelled’. I whole heartily agree with your sentiments posted. As you said, archives are still releasing sealed data and countries are opening up their collections for scrutiny all the time. Still untapped are the Russian archives in the main, those who are aficionados of the Eastern Front will not doubt find buried treasures there that may throw new light on periods of the war that have only had one version so far published. I found something like that not long ago – a version of events from a Soviet perspective that was dismissed locally as fantasy, but a detail in it caught my eye which reminded me of something I had read before from a German point of view. Sure enough on checking the German version, I got two sides of the same story that perfectly complemented each other, thus the Russian version can now be proved as truthful. Finds like that make me tingle and are still out there waiting for a true student of history to uncover.

The swords personality you met must have thought it quite ironic that his old adversaries were so interested in his war time experiences as opposed to his own countrymen who had turned their backs on him and his comrades. It’s gratifying to know that you seized the opportunity to collect their testimonies for the benefit of future generations – the mark of a true Historian. I take heart also that you are spreading your ‘seed’ so to speak and hopefully we will see this philanthropic work come to fruition under new author names and titles. No doubt you have weeded out those who are just looking for fame, fortune or glory as opposed to those who have a simple thirst for knowledge and a willingness to share their finds with others.

It would be terrific if you could live to be 130 - what a collection you would amass. Live long and prosper!

Exactly as hoped and desired, if the thread motivates or inspires, the latter giving me too much credit, I would personally consider it an eventual historical contribution equal to any book or pair of texts I've written if not more. The basic need is the patient and obsessively curious with focus. If not learning, I am totally bored. So I also need to not look at the initial post of the thread. 3 volumes on the first 3 Junkerschule classes start with the 62 or 63 graduates of the 1934 Tölz class. Despite the class having later wartime high award recipients, the diverse careers of that group opens the door to a vast amount of researched topics both within and outside the Waffen-SS due to their career diversity. The number of cadets is about 1/2 the German Cross winners for "Das Reich" or "Totenkopf." Explaining them, and their careers, is exactly like the GC series; allowing far MORE research than simply a title topic in scope. Curiosity making me "chomp at the bits" I should not have spent 6 hours last night looking at the 1934 class and thinking about it, my plate already being overly full. And the list of topics possible with surviving documentation id obviously longer, though Russian sources are frequently and significantly "lopsided" in perspective and fact with much proven to be simply wrong as far as wartime reports by commanders on battles, campaigns, and other events.

Best,
Mark C. Yerger