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**Adrian Stevenson** · 12-09-2004, 03:13 AM

Hi Michael, both are good original first patterns, but sadly opened up for full length zips. The one shown top right page 79 is also the one shown on page 81. The one top left on page 79 is the same one shown in full detail on pages 76. 77 and 78. Note the camo pattern, which shows it to be the same smock

The "Airborne" tab is hard to judge from the single pic, but I would say "OK".

Cheers, Ade.

**Guy** · 12-09-2004, 05:56 AM

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Hi Chaps,

I am the first to agree with you regarding much of the content of this book. It has been responsible for the propagation and dissemination of many an urban myth as well as mis-informing a huge amount of collectors. This was done without the knowledge of the Living Historians envolved who can't be held responsible for other peoples agendas. I should add here that Harlan is indeed a nice bloke and that his actions were probably naive rather than Machiavellian.

Anyone involved in publishing knows the kind of pressure bought to bear on authors, Publishing houses are generally interested in money and sod the content! The same thing happened in third reich collecting and it is now down to a few dedicated and knowledgeable individuals to sort the wheat from the chaff and attempt to set the record straight.

I feel I have to interject on behalf of the smocks in question. As Ade has already stated both are fine examples of original first patterns and I tend to concur with this. Sadly some vandalism has occurred in the form of a full zip but IMO they are real none the less!

I think what might have unsettled a few people is the superb condition and the colours which seem very close to the "Sinai" pattern of the late 50's. I suspect this is a result of using inks which were less diluted than normal coupled with the fact that the piece in question never seems to have been laundered. Hence it's incredibly strong colours.

I shall qualify the above by stating that Harlan has been experimenting for years with these smocks and is only now approaching a product which COULD, WITH A LOT OF WORK, be passed off to a novice as real. I don't think he, or anyone else for that matter, had the ability to produce a smock like this when the book was written. They still can't to the best of my knowledge. If they can oh s##t we had all better look out. Sorry for my ramblings but I felt i had to comment re-these smocks.

Seasons greetings to one and all.

Yours, Guy.

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**Guy** · 12-09-2004, 06:06 AM

PS, Sorry for the somewhat strange paragraphing in my previous post but the old text editor seems to have gone a bit dulally. (Bad workman blaming his tools)

Guy.

**Gary Jucha** · 12-09-2004, 07:24 AM

Harlan

I've also met Harlan on a couple of occasions, .. and as Guy said, he's a nice enough chap.

Unfortunately, the Polish section in "For King and Country" also airs some interpretations and deductions .. which don't really hold water.

..Again, good intentions were meant by the book, ... but probably through the publisher pushing for the final edition, some short cuts were taken to meet a dead-line ... which is to it's detriment ..

I won't mention the cover .... for Ade's sake !!

Regards

Gary J.

**SHEARING-CROSS** · 12-09-2004, 08:14 AM

smocks and more smocks ,

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hiya , many thanks to Guy for his reply .....and putting me right !!
yep every thing you say about those smocks ref: colours ,inks mint condition etc ,
those were the warning signs that put me off but as you and Ade state there `bang on ` i have learned something ,thank you

but i would still like to see one in the `flesh ` before i would be convinced .
thanks again ,Michael.

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Hi Chaps,

I think what might have unsettled a few people is the superb condition and the colours which seem very close to the "Sinai" pattern of the late 50's. I suspect this is a result of using inks which were less diluted than normal coupled with the fact that the piece in question never seems to have been laundered. Hence it's incredibly strong colours.

I shall qualify the above by stating that Harlan has been experimenting for years with these smocks and is only now approaching a product which COULD, WITH A LOT OF WORK, be passed off to a novice as real. I don't think he, or anyone else for that matter, had the ability to produce a smock like this when the book was written. They still can't to the best of my knowledge. If they can oh s##t we had all better look out. Sorry for my ramblings but I felt i had to comment re-these smocks.

Seasons greetings to one and all.

Yours, Guy.

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**Guy** · 12-10-2004, 10:16 AM

And you would be quite correct Michael. I would never advocate believing something wholeheartedly without first examining it. You notice I say "in my opinion" and "tend to agree" etc. I was probably rather dogmatic in my first post without explaining myself. There are a couple of features on this smock which I have yet to see on any reproduction.

I have handled a few of these smocks in my time and my gut instinct and experience tell me this one is correct. However it is perfectly within the realms of possibility that I am wrong and it is a very good repro. I just hope to God it isn't as it would make life a lot more complicated.

All The Very Best, Guy

www.axisandallied.com

**Adrian Stevenson** · 12-10-2004, 04:15 PM

Hi Guys, there is no need to worry about any repro smocks, none come even close to an original in cloth, cut, colour, markings, labels, wool collar, snaps, zips, etc.

Cheers, Ade.

**Guy** · 12-11-2004, 06:05 AM

I see my efforts at diplomacy are lost on you Ade

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