Originally posted by Obergruppen2
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Relax will ya, got the book ordered, spare your words please
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Why didn't you spare yours??
Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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Sapere aude -
Clarification
I just want to add that as to historical knowledge, there are numerous
historians, like Mark Yerger, who know infinitely more about the Waffen SS
than I do. But what they don't have, is the many stories from US soldiers,
in connection with brought-back insignia and other souvenirs.
These stories add a dimension to this book which has been missing from other collecting guides and they were a conduit to placing the items in historical context. Being an American, I naturally wrote from an American perspective and at least in the states, a significant percentage of the total TR stuff in collections was brought here by returning GIs. This is a often overlooked fact, especially by those whose interests are mainly focused on the Russian Front.
The GI connection was the aspect I brought to the project, along with half a century of collecting experience, which, as I stated in the book, still does not qualify one as an 'expert'. The longer one collects, the more they realize they have yet to learn. So I make no claims to 'expert' status;
(maybe I'm a slow learner?)
Finally, it just irks me when individuals start making unfounded criticisms of the book, wihout even having seen it. I know the SS collecting crowd is a tough audience to sell to, but some of the callously skeptical remarks that have been thrown-out by certain individuals are unfair and unnecessary.
There will be valid criiticisms made by customers after they've read the book and I'll address those legitimate gripes on a case by case basis, as they arise. No book is perfect and I am already aware of some gaffes in this one. Most of the imperfections resulted from printing errors or are relatively minor factual mis statements. I discussed these mistakes with Bob Hritz at the MAX and he stated that they do NOT negate the MANY positive aspects of the book.
There is not another collector book like this, in existence.Comment
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Just showed yesterday a German fellow the Ulric book and showed him the white HH and Rippentropp tunic. His question “real“. Then I showed him the female GI on the couch photo. For my view many German collectors or possible EU collectors even don't know the vet effect. Looking for my self in the US for over 10 years personal know the history what stuff was brought back then. And for my view it is even nicer to know the history about an item even as a vet pick-up. Got a normal EM eagle and a BeVo skull from an older lady once in CA, and heck those 2 pieces are even more valuabel to me then when I would bought them from a collector or dealer.
Never heard about a Hotel buy either in Germany, as such vet bring backs are I think mostly unknown in Germany.
I will for sure enjoy my book order I made today very much!Comment
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Wow! This book is amazing!!!! Money well spent gents. If you don't have it yet, don't delay.
JurgenComment
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Gents,
Posted rather quickly on my last post, so please forgive the double post. In all honesty this is truly a wonderful book! I personally feel in many ways it surpasses the "Cloth Insignia Of The SS" bible. For me the up close, very detailed pictures set it above the above mentioned book, plus color pictures over b&w helps. I really enjoyed reading the stories behind the vet bring back pieces pictured in the book and it has some really interesting text in it as well, for example, the story of Christian Tychsen's medals and where the ended up etc.
This s truly in the top 10 of SS books. Right in line with Mike's SS uniform series and hat book.
JurgenComment
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I have the book , the pictures are excellent and very clear. I am very curious to know why most the foreign volunteers and their insignia are not included nor any of the Divisions above the 17th? They were a huge part of the Waffen SS. This is a very good book (and well worth having) , don't get me wrong , but no one should throw away their Angolia as this is far from the definitive work on the subject. I would have preferred to see the stories I felt were unrelated to the topic left out and the foreign material added instead. But that's just me , I do like the book but am a just tiny bit disappointedComment
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re: Why no Freiwilligen Divisions or Alllgemeines?
As I stated in the forward to this book, there was not sufficient room to do justice to either the foreign volunteer divisions or the Allgemeines SS, along with the German W-SS divisions, in a single book. Also, look at the 3 volumes on SS uniforms that Mr Beaver did-he was not able to fit everything into one volume, it's just too vast of a subject. There are plenty of collectors who are authorities on Allgemeines insignia and they could do justice to the subject, whereas I could not. Ditto for foreign volunteer divisions.
When I began laying-out this book, I wanted it to come-in around 200, maybe 250 pages, total. As it progressed, it became a monster, that kept growing, and It ended up being 370 pages-. When you look at the end page numbers, it does not include the early chapters, which are numbered with Roman numerals. There are actually 370 pages in this tome.
I had my own vision of what I wanted the book to be and to me, the provenance stories were every bit as important as the photos of insignia.
That was what was not in previous insignia references and I felt strongly that a book needed to be done which incorporated that. I wanted this book to offer a dimension that has not previously been presented, not just a lot of photos of 'stuff'. As the author, it was my perogative to present the subject the way I saw fit. I have no regrets about the presentation, as it stands.
If you go back and look at the treatment the foreign volunteer divisions received in Angolia's book, each one got a paragraph or less, and a few small B&W photos of cuffbands or collartabs. It was enough to let you know which bands and tabs were worn by which division, but the photos were barely adequate and there was no historical coverage of the individual units.
I even considered putting many foreign volunteer collartabs in a single photo and many sleeve shields in a couple of additional photos. Ditto for foreign volunteer cuffbands. That would've addressed the subject, but not with any coverage of the individual divisions, as they deserve. I thought, if I can't do it right, I ain't gonna go there. Besides, the book was already bigger than I wanted it to be. I didn't want the book to go over 400 pages. An additional book or 2 needs to be done on Allgemeines insignia and foreign volunteers. I addressed that fact in this volume and stated that somebody needs to step forward and take-on that project. It will not be me, because those aspects of the SS are not something I know much about.
Bill Shea still has multiple binders filled with photos of pre war Allgemeines, VT and TK insignia collected by Mr Beaver before his passing and they would definitely fill another book of this size. I don't think my book should be thrown under the bus, just because it is missing foreign volunteer coverage. If I'd covered that subject superficially, with just a few photos, showing numreous tabs and cuffbands of the freiwilligen divisions, maybe Nutmeg would've considered the book to be complete?
It's easy to be a critic but hard to create a book. If it was otherwise, there would be a lot more authors turning out collector reference books. As to completeness, it's impossible to do justice to the history of the W-SS in a single book. I probably had more historical facts about Das Reich in this book than any other division, but nothing of their complex history on the Eastern Front is told, as I was well-aware when compiling the book. So, I just offered western front snippets, limited to what I know, but those give small insights which are nonetheless valuable. They are also stories not told in books by other authors. You either have to focus on the total picture or zoom-in on detailed stories. At the end of the day, the best you can hope to accomplish, is to impart a feel for some aspects of the total story. You can't do it all in one book. Any student of W-SS history needs to gather eclectic details from many different books, each of which offers a different sort of insight to the subject. I wrote what I know about.
Since I'm put in the position of defending my book here, I also want to mention that the medals and badges I depicted all have specific Waffen SS provenance, unlike the generic medals shown in Hayes' eye candy book on SS stuff. Those unattributed medals, although pretty to look at, could as easily have been awarded to Heer units and I don't know why they were even included in his book. I don't recall seeing any foreign volunteer coverage in that book, either. Is Nutmeg slightly disappointed with that book too?
On the level of photo quality, this book exceeds Angolia's work or any other W-SS insignia reference that has been done to date. The historical aspect is also something that has not been done in any SS collectors' guide. I believe that aspect (anecdotal), is what will make collectors go back and pick this book up repeatedly, rather than putting it on the shelf, to remain there, unexamined, for years, as most of the SS books in my collection are.
But that's just me.
It is what it is, and I make no apologies for the way this product turned-out.
It's a free country and I'm sure Mr Shea would be happy to turn the remaining photos over to any author who is willing and able to convert them into another volume in the series. To complete the series, an Allgemeines edition definitely needs to be done, but not by me. I have a list of future books planned and as it is, I was forced to divert from my personal agenda, to hammer this book out.Comment
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Book
I love the Book, it's great. And since I have wasted most of my Life looking at SS Cloth Insignia I am somewhat qualified to give an opinion.
Great Job Bando, unique approach and great pictures in a larger format than Angolias. And the picture quality is outstanding.
I have to buy another one as I caved under pressure and sent mine off to Europe this Morning to a good friend.Comment
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I think you are a bit oversensitive/defensive , I did say I liked the book. Maybe the title could have said "Introduction to Insignia of the Waffen SS" or something that didn't imply it was complete.Last edited by nutmeg; 10-13-2012, 10:56 PM.Comment
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you're still demeaning the book Nutmeg
This book doesn't need any qualifying elements in its title,
to justify what it is. It stands up next to anything else that has
been done on this topic.
Angolia's book is the only one that was anywhere near complete on
the subject, but it had other limitations, such as the small B&W pics,
which have been far surpassed in this book.
Your comment about my stories being "unrelated to the topic" tells
me that we have no common ground in our basic way of looking at
things. Those stories couldn't be more relevant to the topic and they
indeed give historical meaning to objects that are otherwise just
'stuff'.Comment
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Relax there Bando, you are going to get yourself a heart attackOriginally posted by M Bando View Post
the objects as you call them are the main subject of this book, how and by whom they were snatched off the W-SS officers and soldiers is of no interest to me, that is a subject for another book !!!
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It seems a nice book, I think I will get the french version of it.
I wonder, like I read someone said above about zooming in HD pictures, why some of you don't start an encyclopedia website about all of this ? With a website you can update everything, texts, pictures...Comment
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Its all out there on the internet, all you have to do is spare a couple of years to download all that, sort it out and that is the best possible source of W-SS insignia there will ever be and you will ever get, this and other sites contain more than enough detailed description of all above mentioned, i know i started downloading all that since 2004 and every day some new high quality pic pops up, its a never ending source my friend and it is for free, i have at least 7GB of high quality pics of W-SS insignia, cloth headgear, helmets, uniforms and other artifacts, every pic can be zoomedOriginally posted by Blaise View Post
, have books as well, a lot of them but if compared to my W-SS data base they are in plain words nowhere close to compare !
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except of your books and pc photos do you collect militaria?,or only informations? just courios.Originally posted by Obergruppen2 View PostIts all out there on the internet, all you have to do is spare a couple of years to download all that, sort it out and that is the best possible source of W-SS insignia there will ever be and you will ever get, this and other sites contain more than enough detailed description of all above mentioned, i know i started downloading all that since 2004 and every day some new high quality pic pops up, its a never ending source my friend and it is for free, i have at least 7GB of high quality pics of W-SS insignia, cloth headgear, helmets, uniforms and other artifacts, every pic can be zoomed, have books as well, a lot of them but if compared to my W-SS data base they are in plain words nowhere close to compare !Comment
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That's what I do, I mean saving pictures.Originally posted by Obergruppen2 View PostIts all out there on the internet, all you have to do is spare a couple of years to download all that, sort it out and that is the best possible source of W-SS insignia there will ever be and you will ever get, this and other sites contain more than enough detailed description of all above mentioned, i know i started downloading all that since 2004 and every day some new high quality pic pops up, its a never ending source my friend and it is for free, i have at least 7GB of high quality pics of W-SS insignia, cloth headgear, helmets, uniforms and other artifacts, every pic can be zoomed, have books as well, a lot of them but if compared to my W-SS data base they are in plain words nowhere close to compare !
But if all was grouping on a reference website it would be amazing !! We have some reference books, why not having a reference website. You have the pictures, if you have the knowledge start it !!
I know if I had the complete knowledge that's what I would do, and also grouping the insignias of the wehrmacht on it, but that's not the case unfortunately.Comment
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