Peiper book

[Klaus Richter]

I agree. Agte's book was to me a better, more detailed read, as well as a good LSSAH history. I really appreciated his use of numerous first person accounts. Westemeier also used some first person accounts, pretty much all of them negative. This shows the lack of balance in Westemeier's work. There were obviously plenty of individuals who served with Peiper who had a positive view of him, yet Westemeier seemed to "cherry-pick" what he chose to include in his manuscript in order to portray Peiper as negatively as possible. Also his negating of any other opinion that disagreed with his view by calling it "revisionist" and "apologist," was also troubling. Agte's main fault would have to be his reluctance to write anything negative about Peiper, especially considering his time with Himmler. That is Agte's main failure to have real balance in the book. However, I believe the greater sin lies with Westemeier's lack of balance, as well as his imaginative speculations. As for Parker's upcoming book, I have read some of the manuscript and it does look good, however, I haven't read any of the parts that deal with more "controversial" aspects of Peiper's life. Parker and Westemeier did a lot of the research together, but I also know that a lot of the conclusions drawn my both authors are very different from each other...
Hopefully it will all be released soon enough.

[pasoleati]

I do also prefer Agte's book. But, it shouldn't have been too difficult to use source noting. E.g. I'd definitely want to know if a personal account is based e.g. on a wartime diary/letter or an interview 40-50 years after the case. For example, lots and lots of negative has been said of Sepp Diethrich's supposed lack of understanding of tactics, mostly based on post-war interviews. Yet, in Heinz-Günther Guderian's history of the 116. Pz.Div., there is a wartime private letter from the division's commnader to H-G.G. stating that Sepp Dietrich seems to be the only higher commander capable of understanding the situation in Normandy.

[Klaus Richter]

I completely agree pasoleati. That is another main weakness of Agte's book, his lack of source noting. It's unfortunate that he didn't add sources to the book.

[markus]

I completely agree pasoleati. That is another main weakness of Agte's book, his lack of source noting. It's unfortunate that he didn't add sources to the book.

As far as I recall at least the German version of Patrick's book includes hundreds of footnotes.
I've heard once that the English version published by Schiffer Books is slightly different.
Maybe it does not include the footnotes?

[Klaus Richter]

The English version is published by J.J. Fedorowicz, and it doesn't include any footnotes. If the original German version had hundreds of footnotes, then it is really unfortunate that J.J. Fedorowicz didn't publish them.

[Jochen S.]

Although I like the veteran accounts and photos in Agtes book, I definitly prefer Westemeiers book. Agtes sourcing is terrible and he uses wartime phrases which seem to come directly from Das Schwarze Korps. He completely neglects the darker side of Peipers time with Himmler - needless to mention Peipers personal acquaintance with other mass-murderers and doesn't bother to research any deeper into Peipers involvement reg. warcrimes and his opinion about/personal experiences with the Endlösung.
I agree, Westemeier is sometimes 'to much' - but if you read his book carefully you 'll see that he has come a long way. As a youngster he visited LAH Veteran-meetings and became mesmerized by the soldier Peiper as you surely will know after reading his first book in German 'Joachim Peiper - SS-Standartenführer. Eine Biographie' published in 1996. However, after studying and locating new evidence in serveral Archives he had to change his mind. He was disappointed in Peiper, the veterans and in himself and - to be honest - this disappontment you do experience when reading his latest Peiper book. Using the term biased or lack of balance in realtionship with Westemeier - I simply do not agree.

[markus]

I also have high hopes for Danny's book. He's put a lot of work
into that one. I do hope he will offer a more balanced look at
Peiper than Agte and Westemeier did. A very difficult task.
I hope he will not express too many own opinions or farfetched
ideas of what 'Peiper must have thought or moved...'. That
part imo belongs to the reader to 'judge', if he wants/likes to.

I have supported Danny with a lot of unpublished Peiper photos,
docs, diaries, etc. for his book and hope it will be the new
standard book on Peiper.

I have just started to read 'Fatal Crossroads' and like it so far,
though I'm not a large fan of novelizations. I.e. mixing facts
with fiction to make a smoother more entertaining read.

I have read a couple of chapters of the new Peiper book which
Danny shared with me and found them very well researched.

My respect for his intensive work!

Markus

[pimberg]

A 900 page book on Peiper is coming out in a few months in Germany. Titled "Himmlers Krieger" and by Jens Westemeier. Is this a direct translation of Jen's book that was published by Schiffer a few years back? Or does it contain more information, etc ?

[markus]

A 900 page book on Peiper is coming out in a few months in Germany. Titled "Himmlers Krieger" and by Jens Westemeier. Is this a direct translation of Jen's book that was published by Schiffer a few years back? Or does it contain more information, etc ?

From what he told me it's a stripped down version of his doctor
thesis. From what I recall, from the sample he sent me, it is written
in the same style as his second Peiper book. Some readers might
say 'strongly biased'.

[MarcRikmenspoel]

The footnotes are there in the English edition of Agte's Peiper book. They take up around 16 pages at the end of the book. I think Agte's book is a masterpiece, for what it is. His bias is plainly displayed, and anyone who puts any real effort into studying the Waffen-SS and LAH can see what was left out or ignored. The reader is left with a lot of information and personal accounts, and a tremendous selection of photos. For those things, the personal accounts and photos, the book will probably never be bettered.

There's plenty of room for a more comprehensive, balanced view of Peiper. I've only glanced at Westemeier's book, and have never had any contact with him. I should pick up a copy one of these days.

I have had a bit of contact with Agte, and I'll just point out that he used a photo in the Peiper book that I showed him as a sample, but which I never authorized him to publish. That pretty well sums up my contact with him.

Danny Parker used to email me and pick my brain about the Waffen-SS, maybe 7-8 years ago. Then he stopped, and I never did learn if I helped his thought processes in any way. I've looked at Fatal Crossroads, and I don't know what to think. He seems persuasive, but so does Gerd Just Cuppens, and Parker dismisses Just Cuppens out of hand. I'm not really sure what to think. However, I'll still be eager to read his Peiper book. I do hope and expect it will find a balance somewhere between what Agte says (or doesn't say) and the view put forth by Westemeier.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Good book . . . and gotta' rib Markus again!

The footnotes are there in the English edition of Agte's Peiper book. They take up around 16 pages at the end of the book. I think Agte's book is a masterpiece, for what it is. His bias is plainly displayed, and anyone who puts any real effort into studying the Waffen-SS and LAH can see what was left out or ignored. The reader is left with a lot of information and personal accounts, and a tremendous selection of photos. For those things, the personal accounts and photos, the book will probably never be bettered.

Could not have been described in any fashion superior - spot on!

Now if Markus will let loose on a digital copy of his book, I [anticipate I] would greatly enjoy reading it as well . . .

[markus]

Now if Markus will let loose on a digital copy of his book, I [anticipate I] would greatly enjoy reading it as well . . .

Why did I know you would write that?!

I've still got a copy reserved for you here. I can even sign it, which wouldn't be possible on the eBook version... you don't know what you're missin'...!

[N.C. Wyeth]

Some day, you will see the Light . . .

Why did I know you would write that?!

I've still got a copy reserved for you here. I can even sign it, which wouldn't be possible on the eBook version... you don't know what you're missin'...!

OK - I'll make a deal with you . . . I buy this book from you "in print" . . . and your next book comes to me digital . . . how about that?

I'll PM you for purchase details . . . and please - no more "saturated flatulence" from our South African friend this time . . .

[Dutto1]

The footnotes are there in the English edition of Agte's Peiper book. They take up around 16 pages at the end of the book. I think Agte's book is a masterpiece, for what it is. His bias is plainly displayed, and anyone who puts any real effort into studying the Waffen-SS and LAH can see what was left out or ignored. The reader is left with a lot of information and personal accounts, and a tremendous selection of photos. For those things, the personal accounts and photos, the book will probably never be bettered.

There's plenty of room for a more comprehensive, balanced view of Peiper. I've only glanced at Westemeier's book, and have never had any contact with him. I should pick up a copy one of these days.

I have had a bit of contact with Agte, and I'll just point out that he used a photo in the Peiper book that I showed him as a sample, but which I never authorized him to publish. That pretty well sums up my contact with him.

Danny Parker used to email me and pick my brain about the Waffen-SS, maybe 7-8 years ago. Then he stopped, and I never did learn if I helped his thought processes in any way. I've looked at Fatal Crossroads, and I don't know what to think. He seems persuasive, but so does Gerd Just Cuppens, and Parker dismisses Just Cuppens out of hand. I'm not really sure what to think. However, I'll still be eager to read his Peiper book. I do hope and expect it will find a balance somewhere between what Agte says (or doesn't say) and the view put forth by Westemeier.

Hi Marc,

I agree with you 100 per cent regarding Patrick Agte's book on Peiper.I read the book twice within a short period time after purchasing it and i concluded based on snippets about his time with Himmler he must have known more than he let on in the post-war years about the crimes of the Nazi era.

I read Westemeier's book in 2010 i found it very good especially that he backed up his research with lots of notes and source references.The only thing that i found was there was a bit of a tone to it.not a bias one but a contrast to the Agte book.

Regards

Ron

[markus]

OK - I'll make a deal with you . . . I buy this book from you "in print" . . . and your next book comes to me digital . . . how about that?

I'll PM you for purchase details . . . and please - no more "saturated flatulence" from our South African friend this time . . .

PM sent...

My next book?! Schiffer asked me already and I do admit I already
have an idea and the necessary material, but the time necessary might be
a slight problem....but who knows. Where there's a will...