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    Forman's Price Guide 2012

    I just got an example of Forma's new price guide. I cannot and will not comment on the colors and the layout (I also do never comment on British food because both are a matter of taste). I will also not comment on the prices, since they, too, are a matter of taste, area and economy.

    However, it might be allowed to comment on the ignorance regarding some terms and reagrding the depth of research put into this book. Going by the bibliography, the author has stopped reading books other than his own in 1991 since this is the "youngest" book in the bibliography: Nimmergut, Pioniere der Arbeit, OMM Journal 1991.

    I do not know whether it is ignorance or arrogance, but to ignore the works of Williamson, Geissler, Previtera, Durante, Garlasco, Weber, Skora, David, Stimson, and others and a time frame of 21 years (in words: twenty one!) is beyond any comprehension.

    Of course, this blatant neglect is reflected in some of the categories. It is completely out of touch with the reality of the hobby to categorize the Knights Cross in "official issue hallmarked "800", in "Deluxe Type also officially awarded" and "unmarked silver and silver-plated, examples known, non-iron centres" and assign prices which are completely out of touch with reality. Regarding to Forman, a non-iron Neusilber Juncker would go for $ 3.500 - 5000!

    The depth of research shows when one compares the 2012 issue with the 3rd Edition of 2001! For the Knights Cross section one finds the same text and the same categorizing save one difference: Forman puts the 3/4 Ring Knights Cross (which he does not call like that .. but rather Schinkel form ..) in to a "1st Form" and asserts that those were the first Knights Cross type awarded (which is wrong, the first was Juncker, the 3/4 Ring was early - that at least is true).

    With great astonishment the reader learns that the there was evidently a plethora of oaks and oaks with swords awarded during the Third Reich! This goes from "800" with plain reverse swords, over 21&900, L/50&SILBER 935", "L/13&950" up to "L/12&800". Of course there are also silver-plated and umarked swords for the low price of $ 7.500,- or $ 4,500.- for the oaks (but in "fine quality").

    This reads more like the shopping list of a shady dealer than a honest price guide!

    I am still looking for the elusive 8 rivet German Cross for $ 2000 - 3000.....I had hoped that would have been discovered as a fantasy by Forman between 2001 and 2012. It wasn't ...

    If one compares the reference numbers of the badges one will see that No. 69 in 2001 was the Numbered Tank Assault Badge in Bronze and that is also No. 69 in 2012 and has the same text.

    Forman has done nothing else than to assign new pricing to old categories. He has ignored the last 11 years of studies and research and - to make the book appeared "new" has separated the pricing from the picture in an successful effort to make the book extremely hard and cumbersome to use. For good measures, he has filled black pages with small pictures which have either pink, violet, bright blue or red antique frames (well, no I did comment on the color layout ....).

    IMHO this book is a nice reflection of the state of the research of 1988 (Forman's first edition) and should immediately reassigned into the antiques category. A new and useful book it is not not - not even by a far stretch. Forman has not done his homework and has produced something that in certain categories is dangerous since it suggests the genuine existence of orders and badges which are only known as fakes! And he assigns high values to such fakes.

    Dietrich
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Dietrich Maerz; 03-06-2012, 04:03 PM.
    B&D PUBLISHING
    Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

    #2
    Another page form the price guide. Four Gallands are showing very critical to the four different sets of Diamonds. The four Gallands have every reason to look critical since at least three are fakes> The reverse Type B, Example 1" reveals a "L 13" and "835" - the text however says nothing about the maker - only the price of $ 25,000.-!

    This is really some kind of book ....
    Attached Files
    B&D PUBLISHING
    Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

    Comment


      #3
      This is really some kind of book ....


      Pretty much why I bought one of yours and none of his at the SOS. But hey, it's the "final edition".
      Last edited by Larry Lipps; 03-06-2012, 09:14 PM.
      Ignored Due To Invisibility.

      Comment


        #4
        Hi Dietrich,

        I can only agree with all you write. At the SOS, I picked the book up, flipped through it for about 30 seconds and put it right back down. It was nice to meet Foreman because of his fame in our hobby, but I was quite disappointed in the book. I was even disappointed in the quality of the pictures. Sadly it comes no where close to being useful in 2012 in my opinion.

        Tom
        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
        [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

        Comment


          #5
          good review

          Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
          ...This reads more like the shopping list of a shady dealer than a honest price guide!...
          As one who does not follow this area of collecting I have found your review to be quite eye-opening and helpful.
          The quote I picked seemed to scream out to me.
          Thanks,
          Michael

          Comment


            #6
            I am interested in the incoming books about THE AWARDS OF THE HEER, Vol. I and THE WAR MERIT CROSS 1. CLASS AND HIGHER. So when can these be published?

            Regards
            Tang

            Comment


              #7
              Herr Marz,
              It takes a brave man indeed to step into the Forum Arena that’s obviously the main stage for your style of aggressive & bombastic professional jealousy; with libellous remarks delivered as if they were a serious, “critic” or even an enlightened review of my New PRICE GUIDE; by new publisher-author (2007)!

              But here I am, Adrian Forman, a long time collector (Since 1965) Expert & Author way back to 1970’s-80’s Having worked as a consultant expert for Sotheby’s & Christie’s of London
              And establishing The Standard Catalogue on III Reich Awards & Their Value’s since that era

              Hopefully fellow members of the Forum will forgive my black humorous remarks ref Herr Maerz, but he has unleashed an unprovoked vicious personal attack on my Name & my best-selling New 4th Edition FORMAN’S 2012 PRICE GUIDE;
              all in the guise of a review with comments like,

              “This reads more like the shopping list of a shady dealer than a honest price guide!”

              Such deeply malicious remarks reflects on both my Name & Reputation; also my Authority as an Expert & as a long standing Author within both the American & International collecting community! Hopefully Forum members with open minds will not be brainwashed by the so-called maerz destructive method of such nasty verbal attacks!

              However my efforts it seems are still much appreciated by both the American & International collectors! None of which is in line with Herr Maerz’s destructive, malicious & offenseve comments!

              But it’s a free world even for Herr Maerz;
              YOU are clearly a man on a mission it seems,
              to push Adrian Forman books, off the book-shelves!!!!

              Well I have news for you Herr Merz; I am here to stay!

              By the way, even Maerz's 2007 Iron Cross book was certainly not free from error!

              As for his Expertise on the KC, this was badly dented when word spread in US collecting community of his recent poor & dogmatic judgement on a Knights Cross from the Oakleaves & Swords Holder & leading Waffen-SS Panzer Ace “Michael Wittmann”” important historical Knights Cross, awards & photo Grouping. (Displayed by Wolfe-Hardin at a previous SOS Show).

              Also lets not forget some of maez own statements delivered in his own Publishers promotional magazine, which have since also proven to be wrong!

              Apparently Herr Maerz is also proud of the fact that he has never collected
              Iron Crosses or other awards, except of course for that one fake Knights Cross he owned previously!

              I cannot believe that any collector worth his salt would be impressed by such a dogmatic boast, as anyone knows that there is no substitute for handling original pieces, no matter what books you own, with that feeling of pure excitement to be actually owning & touching a piece of history!

              Obviously Herr Maerz is missing that essential element, the “Heart & Soul”
              of a true collector; so how can he share collectors feelings after all, most of us are interested in the Heroes actions; the men themselves, not just the metal!

              I really doubt Herr Maerz’s knowledge has, as yet really been tested on the many other Rare Awards which make up 99% of this hobby!

              I am convinced that Herr Merz will now burn with a religious fervour to try and destroy both my book sales & my reputation; rather than just getting on with publishing his books without recourse to such offensive & crass remarks,
              now plain for all to see, couched within a so-called book review!

              Firstly as even Herr Maerz admits the long established Forman’s Guide Book is merely a PRICE GUIDE , nor have I claimed otherwise!

              The Iron Cross takes up just 4 pages from 400 pages inc prices & text! SEE 1st Form KC detail below !

              *See FG page 86 for official 2nd September1939 “Reichsgesetzblatt, Jahrgang 1939, Teil 1 -1575-1576", regarding Iron Cross Classes. The KC image shows 1st Form unique suspension loop or so-called half-ring design; one assumes, it was abandoned as impractical for manufacturing! The Prime Source - check it out!

              My PRICE GUIDE is I admit full of colour with black backgrounds plus many wartime colour & B/W images included by myself, which many collectors like very much & adds to the book’s interest. *Is this too, a crime, Herr Maerz!

              I am glad to say that the as usual the 2012 SOS Show was a still a great success for me with my new book selling very well with lots of positive & kind comments for helping our hobby over many years.

              In 2009 at the SOS Show Maerz spoke to me refering to my new book,
              “Bravery Courage & Valour “(2008); in that aggrevively rude off hand manner

              “Well Adrian, your book is pretty, but not really much use today!”,

              this rather self important, arrogant & worthless opinion, left me speechless, was this man ignorant or just plain rude or both.

              Perhaps wrongly, I ignored what seemed the mere slip of the tongue from a new man on the block, who was already showing signs of the “Napoleon” complex…
              only time will tell!

              I am glad to say Herr Maerz’s opinion differed from the many hundreds of collectors & historians worldwide.

              Many like the Bravery, Courage & Valour Book both for the superb photographs, with many extremely Rare Awards & Documents some previously unpublished complete with detailed descriptions in the text.

              Also the use of atmospheric wartime artwork & images was praised, as such material is rarely seen in context with the Bravery Awards themselves.

              The illustrated Hero Stories were immensely popular as these added a human touch during the war; rather than a dry book on just awards, weights, size, and maker, as in old style European Numismatic books from 1960’s up to the1980’s.

              Its great success was also due to its Cover design & deluxe high quality production, paper, & hand-sewn binding, which was thanks to its Designer, Michael Tucker.

              The Bravery, Courage & Valour Book Volume 1 is stocked by leading book-dealers everywhere & sells well, for which I am very grateful.

              Adrian Forman - England

              *Copies of the New Forman’s Guide Book series & Bravery, Courage & Valour Book can be ordered by either PayPal or personal cheque from: www.adrianforman.com

              Comment


                #8
                Wow, looks like someones undies are severly bunched up.

                Chet
                Zinc stinks!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Dear Mr. Forman,

                  welcome to the forum!

                  All your remarks, attacks on me and false statements do not change one thing: the content of what I wrote about your latest book is true and will stay true. And it is proveable.

                  You seem to ignore the essence of my justified critique: that the text and content of your 2012 price guide is exactly the same (well, maybe only 98%) as your very good (and I bought all editions) price guide of 1988.

                  How do you explain that you have ignored 24 years of research in the field of the hobby you are such a master - as per your own words?

                  Where is the 8 rivet German Cross? Where in real life are the L/50 & SILBER 935 and the L/13 & 950 swords. They do not exist and therefore there is no need to asign a price to it, isn't it? Were is the proof of "Deluxe Knights Crosses"?

                  Instead of trying to elevate your work by dragging me down, try to explain why you list and show fakes in your books with prices attached? If you are such a splendid hands-on researcher why don't you know about them? Where are the Balloon Observer Badges in all grades? And there is more, as you know.

                  By the way, it is not only my opinion as you can see by some other postings. And if you think that because you are an author and I am an author I should not critizise you, you are also wrong. We all stand on our own feet and are measured by our own work. If you see any mistakes in my books and in my magazine I kindly ask you to point them out so I can correct them. And I will not wait 24 years.

                  But not in the usual way of saying "That is wrong" - proof positive is required.

                  I have not, I will not and cannot critizise the earlier works of you and other authors. I have all your books, I have all the books from Lumsden, Ailsby and the German authors. I don't want to miss them and we all build on them and we all owe them a great deal of gratitude. This was never in question.

                  However, none of the other named authors would have the audacity to re-print the same state of the research which was the "tip of the spear" in 1988. You did that and you exspect the reader to accept that as a book worth while buying in 2012? That is my valid critique.

                  Have you looked at your bibliography? The "youngest" book you list there (apart form the 4th edition of Bowen) is from 1991!

                  No new books in your library? I am not talking about mine. How about Gordon Williamson? Heukemes? Durante? Weber? and so on .... What happened to the last 22 years of research? No reflection on the content of your work? All useless?

                  No, Mr. Forman, in this case you have no grounds to be upset. Upset should be the buyer who finds out he bought a 1988 edition in a new disguise.

                  And if you think that all the above is "professional jealousy" you are wrong. If one takes all the attacks on me as an author away from your above post - what is left? What would you have said if my screen name would be "Panzerjaeger44"? I think the jelousy is in your side ...

                  I have no price guide and my books are in no way in any competition to yours. And you know that, too. And if you think that my writing is libellous, "aggressive" and "bombastic" you should sue me and if you can proof that my above points are wrong and stated to hurt you, you might even win. But you can't prove it and you know that, too.

                  If you think that with threats and lies you can intimidate me, you are also wrong. In the final analysis the readers will decide. And if your sales are as good as you say they are, you have no reason to beat on me.

                  This forum is for the collector. Proof to them that I am wrong with what I said above and if I am wrong I will apologize. I promiss.


                  Best regards,

                  Dietrich Maerz


                  PS: This remark: "As for his Expertise on the KC, this was badly dented when word spread in US collecting community of his recent poor & dogmatic judgement on a Knights Cross from the Oakleaves & Swords Holder & leading Waffen-SS Panzer Ace “Michael Wittmann”” important historical Knights Cross, awards & photo Grouping. (Displayed by Wolfe-Hardin at a previous SOS Show)." ....is extremely odd.

                  I have never made any expertise about that cross. In fact, Steve allowed me to scan not only the cross but also the whole group. Not recently but 4 years ago. It is a genuine K&Q and Wittmann had a K&Q as one can see on the photographs. I will soon publish the group in my magazine. I think you were taken by somebody with a made-up story.... again, you need to check your sources.
                  Attached a screen shot of the group. You might recognize it .
                  Attached Files
                  B&D PUBLISHING
                  Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

                  Comment


                    #10
                    This is an interesting confrontation. I especially find interest in the defense of a book that ends with:

                    *Copies of the New Forman’s Guide Book series & Bravery, Courage & Valour Book can be ordered by either PayPal or personal cheque from: www.adrianforman.com


                    Richard V

                    Comment


                      #11
                      In case of doubt, get all.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Well i have my opinon now and it goes to Mr Maerz


                        Andy

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'm not sure if the cat fight does much to enhance the hobby. IMHO both Mr Foreman and Mr Maerz are well respected authors, researchers, and collectors in their own rights. Both have their supporters and critics. Neither has a monopoly on truth and both support positions not necessarily in line with all or even a majority of the collecting community.

                          I don't own the new guide, but if I understand Mr Maerzs comments the Anniversary addition is a reissue of the original book with minor updates. Sorta like the anniversary edition of "Gone With the Wind", same movie with minor updates. Looking at the front cover it doesn't say new and revised etc. May explain why the Bibliography doesn't reflect new sources.


                          Personally, with the price of books being what they are, I would prefer a completely revised book. However I don't believe Mr Foreman has done anything wrong, unless he states that the anniversary edition includes all the new research that occured in the 25 years since it was first published.

                          Regards Jim

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
                            ... It is with great astonishment the reader learns that the there was evidently a plethora of oaks and oaks with swords awarded during the Third Reich! This goes from "800" with plain reverse swords, over 21&900, L/50&SILBER 935", "L/13&950" up to "L/12&800". Where in real life are the L/50 & SILBER 935 and the L/13 & 950 swords. They do not exist and therefore there is no need to asign a price to it ...Dietrich
                            It is indeed with great astonishment that I read my L13 & 950 Oaks and Swords are worth a considerable amount of money in the UK and absolutely nothing in the Fatherland!

                            http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=Oaks+l%2F13

                            Worth about $5.00 IMO, but at least everyone can say they have now seen a set.

                            Comment

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