Cap Eagle. Can we trust books?

[Peter Wiking]

Can we trust books?
This is a scan from a rather well known book on SS insignia and uniforms.
It has lots of color photos taken close up on SS insignia.
I find the cap eagle a fake. The swaztika is just a "blob" of bullion threads, the head is low, the wings are pointing in all directions. Could an original pre 1945 SS design and manufacturing be this bad??
The book claims that all photos are on original items

http://home.broadpark.no/~pwikvi/images/eagle.jpg

Peter Wiking

[Tony Barto]

Peter;

I'm not familiar with the book that you speak of and the photo is pretty crappy but I can tell you that on hand embroidered bullion insignia as these birds, the swaz generally fills the entire wreath. Any chance of you posting better pix?

[Peter Wiking]

Here is a larger photo.
The book is: SS Uniforms, Insignia & Accoutrements by A. Hayes. (Schiffer Military History Books)

http://home.broadpark.no/~pwikvi/images/eagle_large.jpg
This is a book with many fine photos. I just hope they are original, as the book claims. I would never by an eagle in this quality as i think its a fake. Or am i wrong?

Thanks.
Peter Wiking

[SScollector]

Well, I know nothing about cloth, but there are some metal eagles and TKs in that book, that are being presented as originals, but are instead, 100% fakes.
In fact, I have not seen one book on SS regalia that does not have some fake metal SS cap insignia that are being presented as originals.
So, you certainly cannot trust everything in books.
Hope this helps! Chris

[SgtB]

Peter;

I'm not familiar with the book that you speak of and the photo is pretty crappy but I can tell you that on hand embroidered bullion insignia as these birds, the swaz generally fills the entire wreath. Any chance of you posting better pix?

I agree with Tony. Especially on known original sleeve eagles the swastika
often fits very snug within the wreath. But it is always clearly a swastika.
On this example however, it is not discernable.

1) These were handmade by humans that made mistakes and may
have also hated the Nazis.
2) Never believe everything in any book. Thay are maid buy humens
that make misteaks.

[John Pic]

Brian,I have to disagree with the fat swastika theory as there is an overabundance of period photographic evidence suggesting this is absolutely untrue. That said it is a quality often found on Eagles but here is a fake one with that same quality and a real one without it.

[John Pic]

Real one, of a type which can be seen being worn in period photos of Otto Weidinger,and also found on a tunic with provenence in the Beaver book.

[SgtB]

I'm not sure what I said that you're disagreeing with John. All I said was
"often" and that is a true statement. Beautiful sleeve eagle by the way!

[John Pic]

Then I am misreading the post sorry.I find that there are two rules applied to eagles that just are not true.One is that all originals have the full bloated swaz and the other is that the wing feathers on all originals have sharp angles on them and never blunt ends.Here is another style that has appeared in wartime pics and in established collections with a skinny swaz.In fact this type can be found with sharp or blunt wing ends and fat or skinny swaz but the same legs and head.I think the byproduct is that of whoever embroidered them maybe several different embroiderers working in the same shop and thus slight differences on the same unterlagen.