Movie "Downfall" (About Hitler's last days)

[BrianK]

Watching the Greman language version with English subtitles worked quite well - my high school German classes kicked in. I find watching dubbed-in versions distracting in films like this.

[pasoleati]

Actually I will never understand those who prefer dubbed films. I don´t watch dubbed films for one second. Luckily in my country (Finland) only films for small children have dubbing. All other stuff is subtitled.

[SwordFish]

You mean you don't enjoy dubbed Japanese movies like Godzilla?

I'm with you. Can't stand a movie with a dubbed track...except for Godzilla and Kung Fu.

[landsknechte]

You mean you don't enjoy dubbed Japanese movies like Godzilla?

I'm with you. Can't stand a movie with a dubbed track...except for Godzilla and Kung Fu.

I think the only dubbed movie I've seen that wasn't distracting was Das Boot, mainly because most of the actors dubbed themselves.

[pasoleati]

That doesn´t help as the lip synch is still not working and cannot work!

[behblc]

Jim MI wonder if this member of the cast has anything to do with the movies popularity??

Traudl , " I'm a Munich girl ".
The younglady looks different out of the bunker.

[Paul Giva]

Traudl , " I'm a Munich girl ".
The younglady looks different out of the bunker.

I'd like to München me on some of that.

[Grabenkater]

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oh and to bigschuss - i believe ganz is an austrian so im assuming the accent was spot on

Nope, Bruno Ganz is from Zurich, Switzerland. My wife who is also from Zurich commented that she could tell at some points he had a Zurideutsch accent. From what little I can understand of Adolf in original films I have seen he rolls his R's and to me it sounds strange, but again I am not a native speaker.

[K Bandow]

Saw it at the theater with my dad, brother, and sister when it came out. I think it was the best movie I have seen at a theater since Titanic! It blew my socks off!

[Ostfries]

Der Untergang!, not Downfall

My most favourite scene of the movie, ‘see that, pointing at the end of the 8,8cm of his Tiger tank, that’s the border of the Reich, behind that is Russian territory’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQRN-S7XtnM .

[robertdmountfor]

Yes, I love this movie and also bought it on DVD. Besides a great movie, when you watch the bonus features such as the interviews with the producers and actors, you realize that from the very start, they are all historians. They set out to a make a movie that followed closely the factual accounts of those last days. I watched it for the first time just after finishing Ian Kershaw's biography of AH, and I must say that the movie does seem to parallel the historical accounts in the book.

I have a question for somebody who is a native speaker of German. Hitler supposedly spoke with a rough, Austrian accent. Did Bruno Ganz speak with this accent in the film? To my untrained ear, it does sound like he is speaking differently from some of the other actors.

He listened over and over again to the ten minute 'Mannerheim' informal chat.... its not bad, but for the best see Fritz Dietz in 'Befreiung' or Liberation the mosfilm out now (only in Germany no?) factually incorrect end with the soviet slant of him murdering his wife, but never the less some great scenes filmed on location. (made from 1955 - 1970) he is the most convincing I have seen. Also the best Goebbels, almost his double! now his Rhinelander accsent is SPOT ON, unmistakable. And the actor is still alive, living in Berlin.

[robertdmountfor]

PS Ganz owns a little known about flat in Munich........ At Prinzregentenplatz no less.

[SwordFish]

I read an interesting review from a professor in the UK about the movie. I can't locate it now for the life of me. When I do, i'll link it however.

In brevity, the synopsis of his article, looking at the movie from a socio-societal and historical standpoint paints a much darker image of some of the key players, who characters were romaticised in the film. He listed the atrocities committed by alot of them that was omitted in the movie, and also added factual accounts of who these people actually were. He also adds a spin that kind of touches on the "German amnesia" from his point of view. I have to say that his view point is insightful and certainly another way to look at the facts, without the fiction.

Again, Ill post it as soon as I can track the article back down.

[behblc]

This is indeed true but how can it be realted directly to the subject matter of the film , those last days in Berlin's Fuhrerbunker ?

When you look at the roll call of the film at the end , Himmler , Goring, Keitel , Jodl , Bormann , all are names which either went to trial or died trying to escape.
Within the remit of the film it would have been difficult or even distracting to have explored this aspect in any depth.

I have previously made the point that Bormann's role was almost one of a non speaking background figure - he did in fact play political and power games right up to the last and of his inner circle only Goebbels really had a major part to play in the film. ( Speer to a lesser extent ).

In other areas of the film the nature of the "party" was well displayed - the willingness to hang and shoot people on any street corner , the indifference to the fate of Berliners and those pressed into uniform.

Most people who saw the film who have a direct interest in WW2 will appreciate what the background and career record was of the supporting characrters - the General who was threatened with execution only to be promoted instead , the clean freshly presented generals who accused him of cowardice , Keitel who still supported insane military decisions up until the end.

One scene which struck me at the end , when the news of his death was announced - everyone "lite up" , almost as if to "thank God for that , I was gasping for a fag".

Goebbels and his wife came across as the people who had really tied themselves to Hitler - his end would mean their end - as indeed was the case.

For me the background of the major players was not a huge detrcation from the movie - my only disappointment was the role of Bormann which was hugely underplayed in the script - I don't think Bormann even had a word to say.

"See that , that is the end of the Reich".

Below two links to the Open University Lecture delivered in 2005 by Professor Ian Kershaw - "Hitler , his place in history"
It makes excellent listening by perhaps the leading authority on Hitler.
His view of life in the bunker I think is accurate.
http://www.open2.net/oulecture2005/index.html

http://www.open2.net/historyandthear...y/lecture.html

[Anthony N]

A very interesting lecture, thankyou for the link.
I have read a few opinions on downfall from historians, film makers & intellectuals & although a few were very much against the film being shown, most of them thought that the film modernised the view of Hitler & by humanising him & the Nazi heirarchy made him all the more evil. I agree with them that in the past Hitler has been betrayed as almost superhuman and as such has been a figure more likely to be attractive to Neo Nazis. By being portrayed as very human in Downfall it actually has the opposite effect, it makes him seem all too human, almost pathetic, very lost & hardly a character a Neo Nazi would hold up as some superhuman being to be followed even after all these years.
The lecture also brought up something that i was discussing recently with my fiance. How will future generations view Hitler? This was because i was thinking about how we view the Roman Empire now. Although it was one of the most evil regimes ever it is now viewed more for it's inventions & military genius & not for making a sport from genocide, even hitler didn't go that far!
Fascinating.
Ant.