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**Lucky Duck** · 05-20-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Sal Williams

Steven I saw it yesterday and it does bring rage. You probably don't want to see it in that case.

I found that I did not like the feeling and would be better off if I could feel a more zen acceptance rather than a refueled fury as Lucky Duck mentioned. All the hate seems to keep up a cycle of violence.

best, Sal

No Sal. Tolerating and excusing ("zen acceptance" in your hippy-speak) religious extremism and bestial terrorist acts keeps up what you limp-wristed cultural relativists call the "cycle of violence." Subjecting the enemy to absolute, crushing defeat ends it.

But you just wanna feel good.

Ray.

**Sal Williams** · 05-20-2006, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Lucky Duck

No Sal. Tolerating and excusing ("zen acceptance" in your hippy-speak) religious extremism and bestial terrorist acts keeps up what you limp-wristed cultural relativists call the "cycle of violence." Subjecting the enemy to absolute, crushing defeat ends it.

But you just wanna feel good.

Ray.

I don't remember excusing anything.
Don't insult me with your asinine limp wristed comments , I did not insult you.

**Gene** · 05-20-2006, 10:14 PM

I have no intention of seeing this movie

**NKOMO** · 05-20-2006, 10:53 PM

I'll be taking my wife and two teenaged children to see this movie for one reason. The reason is so it will stay fresh in our minds. As time goes by, memories have a tendency to fade, but this is one memory that needs to be kept fresh. We need to remember those who died and those who DID this to us. We need to remember why we are at war. For all of you who lost loved ones and friends due to 9-11, I am truly sorry.
Arch

**Gene** · 05-20-2006, 11:17 PM

No need to spend $50 to remind the family; just click on this and save it.

http://www.fdnylodd.com/BloodofHeroes.html

**Jgeary** · 05-22-2006, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Gene

No need to spend $50 to remind the family; just click on this and save it.

http://www.fdnylodd.com/BloodofHeroes.html

That pretty much says it all Gene..

**regular122** · 05-22-2006, 10:15 PM

I saw the film last Saturday while traveling. I had hesitated for some time not knowing how I would react. The film was extremely well-done. Not sensational. Not distatsteful. But stark nevertheless. At times I found myself lost in my own thoughts as I reflected on the people on the screen. At other times I felt anger. I think I even swore aloud a time or two...which is unusual for a man that is not given to swearing.

What is remarkable to me about this film is that it shows a solidified and determined group overtaking innocents conducting their daily lives as they are living out the dreams of what is important to them in a free society. Slowly, the realization hits the people on the plane that these intruders mean them harm. The passengers run the gamut of reactions based upon the factual phone records. Some are in disbelief and can't imagine that anyone would really kill them. Others cling to some elusive hope. Still, others think they can negotiate. And some, although few in number, realize what is at stake and decide to act.

As I reflected on this, I could not help but see the similarities between this small slice of America represented on that plane and larger America as a whole. In the end, those that could and decided to act, made a horrifying situation less horrifying for their country, but at great sacrifice to themselves. And the cold reality is, that those who chose no side, were along for the ride whether they wanted to be or not. This is a film worth seeing.

The next morning, I spoke at a VFW renaming dedication to one of my soldiers killed in action in Iraq. As I was there the day he died, I felt I needed to be there for the family and for that community. Jackson, Michigan now has Donald L. Wheeler, Jr., VFW Post 823. They didn't have to take the effort to honor and remember him. But I am glad they did. Wolfgang Petersen didn't have to make United 93 either. But I am glad he did.

Steve

**Gerard/Relic Hunter** · 05-23-2006, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Sal Williams

Steven I saw it yesterday and it does bring rage. You probably don't want to see it in that case.

I found that I did not like the feeling and would be better off if I could feel a more zen acceptance rather than a refueled fury as Lucky Duck mentioned. All the hate seems to keep up a cycle of violence.

best, Sal

These types of feelings are why 9-11 happened in the first place. We tried to ignore them and thought they would just go away. Chamberlain tried that approach also.

Keep the Faith,

Gerard

**theinglebaby23** · 05-25-2006, 11:46 AM

All I know is that the war on terror is going to be won by the civilians at home. That being said, there are a lot of ignorant yet opinionated people here, and they get most of the spotlight from CNN. Financially driven or not, sad as it is to say, many Americans need the reminder, or we'll give up on the war and it'll happen all over again.

Also, regardless of how one feels about the war, the movie shows and instills support for the troops. Nobody soldier needs to come home, after going through what they do, and not feel 100% appreciated for what they've done.

**Wizard** · 05-25-2006, 12:32 PM

I was only a few blocks away from the World Trade Center that day and I was there when it fell. My friend made it out but 5 people I know were at Windows of the World for a breakfast meeting, did not.

I am not going to see this movie. Not because I need to be reminded of it, but because I have been holding back a tidalwave of grief since then.

In my opinion only, I am disheartened to see what is happening in the USA. As an ex-marine, I am sad that most citizens of today do not have respect for the military. They choose not to serve their country and take for granted, the liberty and freedom, paid for in blood, by the soldiers. What happened to the patriotism of the 1860's when the country could stomach tens of thousands KIA or WIA in Gettysburg or Chancellorsville? What happened to the pride from serving your country during our great-grandfather and grandfather's era? People go about their business insensitive to the plight of the soldiers.

My deepest sympathy to the families that have lost someone during 9/11. To all the soldiers who have paid the ultimate price fighting in the middle east, nobody deserves to be citizens of USA more than you.

**regular122** · 05-25-2006, 08:31 PM

To inglebaby 23 and Wizard,

I agree. I think both of you have hit on a positive theme and that is defense of our country and its freedoms. I understand the feelings of not wanting to see the film because of the emotion it may invoke. I felt the same way. Some may, some may not. I am glad I saw it, but I can understand not seeing it also. But what I don't understand is the same question that both of you seemed to ask: how can people possibly think that we cannot support the effort now that our soldiers are into it? Do people really think it would be BETTER if we failed? And do we think that we can somehow have some moral superiority by stating we support the troops but not what we fight for? From one soldier's perspective (mine), these people shouldn't even bother with their unsacrificial sympathies of 'support' for us but not what is at stake. We'd rather not have that kind of support.

Some choose to remember our soldiers. While important, it is not enough. We must honor them. They deserve more than marble, bronze and place names. They deserve honor. Their deaths must mean something. Soldiers sacrifice while a nation lives in peace. That is fine, but Americans can sacrifice as well. They can sacrifice doubt. Sacrifice anxiety. Sacrifice any notion that we will not see this thing through. They can honor our soldiers by letting us win.

No more 9/11s. No more investment brokers making the horrible choice of leaping or burning. No more grandmothers sitting on airplanes reflecting on life and whether it would really end this way. No more children hearing an airplane the next day and wondering if it was going to hurt them. I am glad I serve and I'm glad there are those such as you that we know TRULY back us up. But then, as I see both of you have either served or are serving, I am not surprised. Thanks for that service. We must HONOR those lost (but not the terrorists) on United 93, whether we remember them in certain ways or not. Steve

**theinglebaby23** · 05-25-2006, 08:45 PM

Here's an interesting point. Ever heard that song from WWII "Remember Pearl Harbor" and other songs. What happened to that, now, if someone does similar (ie. makes a movie) there's all this drama and criticism. What happened

I know we've had a big discussion on this, but they just straight up deserve a good ass kicking. Artillery!!!

Regular, where you stationed and what's your MOS?

**regular122** · 05-25-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by theinglebaby23

Regular, where you stationed and what's your MOS?

Fort Benning. Infantry

**theinglebaby23** · 05-25-2006, 11:19 PM

You in the bat? I went to jump school there. Kinda sucked. VD drive still there?

**Sal Williams** · 05-27-2006, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by regular122

To inglebaby 23 and Wizard,

I agree. I think both of you have hit on a positive theme and that is defense of our country and its freedoms. I understand the feelings of not wanting to see the film because of the emotion it may invoke. I felt the same way. Some may, some may not. I am glad I saw it, but I can understand not seeing it also. But what I don't understand is the same question that both of you seemed to ask: how can people possibly think that we cannot support the effort now that our soldiers are into it? Do people really think it would be BETTER if we failed? And do we think that we can somehow have some moral superiority by stating we support the troops but not what we fight for? From one soldier's perspective (mine), these people shouldn't even bother with their unsacrificial sympathies of 'support' for us but not what is at stake. We'd rather not have that kind of support.

Some choose to remember our soldiers. While important, it is not enough. We must honor them. They deserve more than marble, bronze and place names. They deserve honor. Their deaths must mean something. Soldiers sacrifice while a nation lives in peace. That is fine, but Americans can sacrifice as well. They can sacrifice doubt. Sacrifice anxiety. Sacrifice any notion that we will not see this thing through. They can honor our soldiers by letting us win.

No more 9/11s. No more investment brokers making the horrible choice of leaping or burning. No more grandmothers sitting on airplanes reflecting on life and whether it would really end this way. No more children hearing an airplane the next day and wondering if it was going to hurt them. I am glad I serve and I'm glad there are those such as you that we know TRULY back us up. But then, as I see both of you have either served or are serving, I am not surprised. Thanks for that service. We must HONOR those lost (but not the terrorists) on United 93, whether we remember them in certain ways or not. Steve

I have to disagree here. What you are saying means that if our government sends troops into anywhere , we must sacrifice any doubts we have. That is not what America is supposed to be about. We are supposed to be allowed to disagree with our governments policies. We are supposed to be allowed to influence and change them. We are supposed to be allowed to express our doubts about them. I submit that these are the very freedoms that the American soldier is supposed to be putting himself in harms way to defend.

Best, Sal

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