February 13,14 -1945

[Douglas J Schrack]

The 60th anniversary of the total destruction of the city of Dresden. First the R.A.F and then the 8th Airforce. Estimated casualties 100,000.

Doug

[Peter Wiking]

Was on the news here in Norway. Terrible thing.

Cheers.
Peter

[Peter J.]

Yes indeed, terrible action. But I'd like to insert some reference to an article I read yesterday in a swedish paper. It was a rewiew of Frederick Taylor's book "Dresden. Tuesday 13 February 1945". According to this rewiew, the aftermath gave Goebbels the victory in his last propaganda campain. Numbers of casualties were reported to 250.000 dead, however the registered numbers of dead were 25.000 and 10.000 missing at the most. For those who are interested in facts and numbers, this might be an interesting book.

KR
Peter

[Ostmark]

Bombing of Dresden:

Estimated casualties 35000 - 250000 (the number of refugees which where in Dresden are unknown).

There was no war industrie located in Dresden so the bombing was to kill only civilians. Some people say bombing holocaust of Dresden .... i totaly agree with them.
And the day will come that this bombing will be approved as war crime

[Theodor]

most sources talk about 35 000 recognized victims. With the fierce firestorms in the crowded city, it is clear that the burned upon recognition bodies were several times more than the recognized...
This was a warcrime. The victims rest in peace!

[J Melvin]

Warning, gentlemen. This topic can get canned very quickly. Thanks for everyone's cooperation.

[fknorr]

Yes indeed, terrible action. But I'd like to insert some reference to an article I read yesterday in a swedish paper. It was a rewiew of Frederick Taylor's book "Dresden. Tuesday 13 February 1945". According to this rewiew, the aftermath gave Goebbels the victory in his last propaganda campain. Numbers of casualties were reported to 250.000 dead, however the registered numbers of dead were 25.000 and 10.000 missing at the most. For those who are interested in facts and numbers, this might be an interesting book.

KR
Peter

To anyone with an open mind (i.e. not "pro" allied side, nor German side), Taylor's book did not "prove" anything...although it was much better than the other few books out there on this topic.

[Douglas J Schrack]

Dresden,February 13,14, 1945

"There were no fighters or anti-aircraft, the Germans thought we would never hit it, since it had never been hit before. There were no substantial military objectives other then a network of railroad lines. At the time most of the crews had little sympathy for those on the receiving end of our bombs. If you saw London, like I saw it, you would not have any remorse. The German fliers did go after striken planes and were known to make passes at men in chutes."

Astor, Gerald "The Mighty Eighth"

The guilt would come years later.

Doug

[fknorr]

"There were no fighters or anti-aircraft, the Germans thought we would never hit it, since it had never been hit before. There were no substantial military objectives other then a network of railroad lines. At the time most of the crews had little sympathy for those on the receiving end of our bombs. If you saw London, like I saw it, you would not have any remorse. The German fliers did go after striken planes and were known to make passes at men in chutes."

Astor, Gerald "The Mighty Eighth"

The guilt would come years later.

Doug

I believe Dresden WAS a legitimate target because of the rail lines but wiping out the entire city w/a firestorm to get the railyards (especially at that stage of the war) seems a little much.

[Peter J.]

Please allow me to make a clearification. I haven't read the book, I was merely trying to inform the members of a new book on the subject

KR
Peter

[Simon O.]

It was an example of how total war brutalises and dehumanises. To think that at the start the RAF restricted itself to leaflet dropping and had strict orders not to bomb cities. Luftwaffe aircrew who were shot down and died over the UK were given burials with full military honour and by the end we have things like Dresden, Tokyo and a 'They sowed the wind they can reap the whirlwind' attitude.


No point in blaming or trying to justify it. Better just to acknowledge it and vow never to let such things happen again. We must learn the lessons of history or they will repeat themselves.

[Douglas J Schrack]

"Slaughterhouse Five"

Simon
Well put and my point exactly!

Doug

[fknorr]

It was an example of how total war brutalises and dehumanises. To think that at the start the RAF restricted itself to leaflet dropping and had strict orders not to bomb cities. Luftwaffe aircrew who were shot down and died over the UK were given burials with full military honour and by the end we have things like Dresden, Tokyo and a 'They sowed the wind they can reap the whirlwind' attitude.


No point in blaming or trying to justify it. Better just to acknowledge it and vow never to let such things happen again. We must learn the lessons of history or they will repeat themselves.

I hope you were not attempting to take the (allied) moral high ground here as Luftwaffe pilots were not ordered to bomb cities either and it is generally thought that when they did initially bomb a city in England, it happened in error. The British were VERY quick to mount a retalitory raid on a German city, with I believe more bombers.

Do not get me wrong, the Germans (some) were no Angels but most of the stuff we have been fed over the years about how evil their tacics were are BS and indeed we one upped them in most cases in severity.

[Simon O.]

I hope you were not attempting to take the (allied) moral high ground here as Luftwaffe pilots were not ordered to bomb cities either and it is generally thought that when they did initially bomb a city in England, it happened in error. The British were VERY quick to mount a retalitory raid on a German city, with I believe more bombers.

Do not get me wrong, the Germans (some) were no Angels but most of the stuff we have been fed over the years about how evil their tacics were are BS and indeed we one upped them in most cases in severity.

Absolutely not and i'm sorry you misunderstood me. My point was that for both sides there was an escalation in the air war. The pointing of fingers by either side gets us nowhere, nor does the whitewashing of what we allies did either. That simply plays into the hands of those who today would twist history to further their own agenda.

[Viktor]

It was War , thats why we shouldn't tear chunks off each other .