Announcement

**Cam_S** · 02-06-2005, 09:56 AM

Hello JL,

I was not implying that you are a Criminal or that I was going to phone the police. Pot huntng is digging with out a permit an it can lead to jail time. This was more of a fore warning. Sorry about my sarcastic tone, but after a couple of years in the military it has kind of grown.

Now for the government, I have never known them to horad the spoils of war repatriations. They have always buried the dead and passed on other stuff. They have been more than helpful in the past, it is just a time consuming paper work trail.

I am truly very sorry about what they did in front of your church. Personally I believe that they should have lost thier jobs on the spot if they were dumping human remians in a garbage container.

You said that you were not grave robbing, but you did find human bones. So guess what, that was still a grave.

I am not trying to get in a fight here but If I ever saw a grave dug up that belong to a relitive of mine, I would freak. I am also sure that any one with a relative who died in the war would also freak out. I have no problem with people finding things on the surface, but when you go a dig up a grave, or past grave, there is where the problem lies.

Sorry if I came accross sounding rude, but they died, even if they were on the wrong side of the war, what right do we have to go and dig thier grave. Alot of the War Grave commisions are looking for people to help them so I am sure that you would be able to get a job with one of them if you are interested.

Cam

**Jean-Loup** · 02-07-2005, 03:19 AM

Hi

**Jean-Loup** · 02-07-2005, 03:25 AM

"i

**münster** · 02-07-2005, 09:51 AM

I would rather have Jean Loup find my Grandfathers grave then some Russian Grave digger. The Volksbund knows the field where my grandfather is buried in Russia along with some others,,to tell you the truth ,,the VB really doesnt give a toss about those graves.

**Cam_S** · 02-07-2005, 05:32 PM

Lets Agree to Disagree

Hello JL,

We both have very strong opinions on this matter, in which I do not see a Productive converstation comming from it. SoI think that we should agree to disagree. This is what the forums are about, everyone being able to state thier opinions, but lets not let it go to far.

On another note, I may be able to help you with something, if you are still interested to talk. I have a very good friend who is the Grandson of a FSSF vet who served in the Med. I am not entirely sure where he fought but I do believe it was in the southern France/Sardinia/Corsica area. If you are interested, I can pass on your email address to him and if he is willing, he will get into touch with you. He inherited all of his Grandfathers paper items, uniform items and the little stuff that he brought back(P-38 etc). So if you are looking for Unpublished items and info here is the place. Just add another thread or send me a PM.

Munster: I am sorry that the Volksbund is like that, I had no Idea.

Cam

**Adrian Stevenson** · 02-07-2005, 05:45 PM

Hi Guys, I hope that you can "agree to disagree" on this very emotive subject. I would not like this thread to go further downhill.

Thank you once again JL for sharing these pics with us, which David summed up very well in his reply:

Thanks for showing these sobering items. They really put some of the shiny objects shown on other threads into perspective.

Cheers, Ade.

**behblc** · 02-07-2005, 08:48 PM

Thought Provoking thread.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and found it worth while.
Something I read sometime back stuck in my mind , (wish the author and title had as well!) , the autor whilst doing an introduction to his book said that we should remember that the awards we now own did not just appear , they were earned , often with injury or loss of life to the recipient.

For my part if a war grave had been cleared I would have expected all remains to have been removed and the ground to be "sterile" so to speak.

I would not condemn J-L for digging. There is quite a diffrence between his dig and those who did for profit , who knowingly rob graves and show disprepect.

The " dug up" on ebay always makes me think if this is actually " dug up" under what circumstances was it dug up , and if I don't know would I want to buy it on moral grounds ?

Some strange goings on in the Uk Michael Mates introduced , with best intentions an act to protect war graves in the Uk.
THe MOD in their wisdom have on occasions been informed and given the evidence of expert researchers to say , there is a pilot buried in this spot and they drag their feet and if they can at all will do nothing.
There are ethical issues certainly but having met and corresponded with famalies who have sons still listed as " missing" all would like to see a deent burial being possible and years of heartache laid to rest.

Recent issues of "After The Battle" have produced quite a bit of coverage of digs on eastern front battle grounds lots of historical items being found , but lots of human remains as well.
I still see there being some considerable difference between L-P and those I would consider grave robbers.
Let us be quite honest , if there was no market for "dug up items" , the grave robbers would not be digging , collectors are their market.
Sorry for the sermon on the mount .

**Laurence Strong** · 02-07-2005, 08:59 PM

Jean-Loup, Nice thread and I like the respect you seem to have for the dead soldiers. What is the "Volksbund"?

**MJC** · 02-07-2005, 10:33 PM

www.volksbund.de

**Laurence Strong** · 02-07-2005, 10:55 PM

Thanks for that

, Unfortunatly I don't speak german , but it looks like some kind of youth organization.

**Jean-Loup** · 02-08-2005, 04:52 AM

The Volksbund is equivalent to the German war graves commision. They are a private organisation I think, and this leads to all sorts of questionable or dishonest behaviour.

**Simon O.** · 02-08-2005, 03:30 PM

For the 'authorities' and the large organisations it comes down to money and limited resources. Whilst there are keen amateurs who are more than willing to search and help then far better IMO to help channel that enthusiasm in a positive direction than trying to stop it whilst doing nothing themselves.

Jean-Loup has recovered what the authorities threw away. Is that wrong?

**Nick_since_1985** · 03-04-2005, 07:57 AM

I have to agree with Jean Loup...

Beacause he really cares about the things that he finds. (so do I)

What that other guy from Canada is sugesting is that we took all the ancient mummy's, dig a hole in the ground, and threw them in...

Last I saw a program on National Geographic, about divers who took items from sunken Japanese an American ships, the archeologist FLIPT. Saying it was a major crime beacause the generation next to us could see what was down there!!!
Was good does the stuff do by lying 1000m under seelevel ???
Same goes for items who are stucked in the ground !!!
At least now can the people who visit me see my "special" room and enjoy and learn from the wars we have fought...

btw, again nice collection Jean Loup

**münster** · 03-04-2005, 10:15 AM

Detecting doesnt always have to mean Human Remains. I find battlefields the worst for detecting and areas of surrender the BEST!!!! Ground dug always seems to carry the stigma of graves,,it doesnt. Here are some finds from an area of German Surrender.

Attached Files

detectorsiuztt.jpg (50.2 KB, 1339 views)

**tomnl** · 03-05-2005, 06:02 AM

a

Cool stuff munster, did you find it yourself? I search with MD myself too, just across the border in Holland at our airfield that was once german. I havent found a helmet or such yet but im always looking for it.

Announcement

What I found after the Volksbund went by

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread