CHILDREN doing LIVING HISTORY ... A CONCERN?

[Ancasta]

Obviously not passed the maturity test. That case is a bit concerning. But minute .

I have re-enacted for 17 years and watched children grow up from babyhood within the hobby. Re-enactment children who grow up within the hobby tend to be mature for their years. The immature ones tend to be kids who have not grown up within the hobby, but come into it quite late and usually as teenagers.

Groups in the UK tend to have strict guidelines regarding children and the age that they can take part in full scale battles. I assume the same is for the US and elsewhere? In my regiment alone no-one of any age is permitted to fight until we have vetted them for 6 months. Immaturity stikes the adults too. We have accepted 16 year olds and rejected 25 year olds simply because they demonstrated a lack of maturity.

My son went to his first event at 2 weeks. He's five now and knows that open fires/weapons/sharps are no-no's. My concern is that in my experience people who have no kids of their own are the ones quickest to judge as to what they should and should not do, and I get the impression that Micheal and Ardennes have no children.

I have just started re-enacting WW2 Axis after years of another period, and have always had a serious interest in WW2. In the last year or so I have seen several attempts from British groups to 'blackball' Axis groups with HJ children. Why? I have spoken to Veterans from both sides who have no problem with this. Also, all german children from the age of ten between 1933 to 1945 were HJ/BDM, and in uniform every afternoon after school. So, to not have children in uniform is highly unauthentic. As it is The Second Battle Group and the Luftwaffe Historical Group both have children who have won recent awards at Beltring and Detling for 'Best Child Impression', portraying both HJ and BDM respectively.

I have heard people get very upset about seeing children re-enacting Axis, and when I press them to tell me why they never have a good reason, other than the common answer "I don't like it." If you are against it can you please clearly outline why. So far no-one has complained about the boy soldiers that some Russian re-enactment groups have. So why is that OK? Stopping children from being HJ/BDM is basically whitewashing the past and going into denial about history. It should be portrayed Warts and All so that we, and the future generations, can learn from it to prevent the same mistakes from happening again.

I am interested to see where this thread goes. So far you can spot the parents. The ones against children in re-enactment always talk about events as a weekend 'for boys only', away from the women and children. Well, I'm sorry to spoil your dream guys, but this is the 21st century. My son has already developed a deep interest in history, and I encourage as many as possible to join him in an age where many consider 'History is Bunk'.

As you can no doubt tell this subject gets my goat. I hope people understand where I am comming from. I will now put down my soapbox and step away to a safe distance.

[Ash.H]

[QUOTE=Ancasta]- So far no-one has complained about the boy soldiers that some Russian re-enactment groups have=QUOTE]

Are we talking Russian Imperial Army here? modern Russian Federation forces here?

Although I'm guessing you mean the Red Army (RKKA), sorry it just really gets my goat that people can't be bothered to distuingish the difference!

[bratwurstdimsum]

Interesting thread...I too reenact Wehrmacht and quite a niche section of the Army it is , I gave your post some thought, Ancasta, and may have a possible answer for you. It is certainly what I would do with my children if I ever get any...

Hitler, in making the German Boy Scouts a political party, basically indoctrinated hundreds of thousands of kids who really weren't old enough to know better, into a regime that preeched hatred and racial supremacy. Often putting these kids at odds with their own parents and community. Quite often parents who saw the horrors of WW1 and urged their HJ sons to not be brainwashed, were themselves victimised when sons turned informants...anyhow I am digressing...

What I guess riles people is now that we are in a free society, getting children to represent (like their peers in 1930s-40s) something they potentially don't understand, from an regime that was opportunist in exploiting innocence...well that could just be unpalatable to some. I certainly will not allow my children to do so until they turn 18.

I guess its for the same reason we don't allow kids to buy adult materials or give them full shooters licenses or drive cars, or drink liquor...these things require a level of self determination and maturity which, frankly most children I see these days just don't have...let alone asking a 16 year old about politics!

Lets take it a step further shall we? (A big Hypothetical here!!) Lots of reenactment groups boast of how realistic they are...well...it doesn't stretch it too much for, say static reenactors to have political magazines or books, and have the HJ in "class" learning / preaching these political views, how is a kid supposed to decide right from wrong esp if his father is doing it and is his hero? This is what people are concerned about, not so much the uniform he is wearing per se...after all, what do you tell your son when he asks: "dad, what were the boys like who wore this uniform?"

This is just my opinon, I'm sure your son is older than his years, what you do with your him is your business I will not judge you.

[Tino]

I have re-enacted for 17 years and watched children grow up from babyhood within the hobby. Re-enactment children who grow up within the hobby tend to be mature for their years. The immature ones tend to be kids who have not grown up within the hobby, but come into it quite late and usually as teenagers.

Groups in the UK tend to have strict guidelines regarding children and the age that they can take part in full scale battles. I assume the same is for the US and elsewhere? In my regiment alone no-one of any age is permitted to fight until we have vetted them for 6 months. Immaturity stikes the adults too. We have accepted 16 year olds and rejected 25 year olds simply because they demonstrated a lack of maturity.

My son went to his first event at 2 weeks. He's five now and knows that open fires/weapons/sharps are no-no's. My concern is that in my experience people who have no kids of their own are the ones quickest to judge as to what they should and should not do, and I get the impression that Micheal and Ardennes have no children.

I have just started re-enacting WW2 Axis after years of another period, and have always had a serious interest in WW2. In the last year or so I have seen several attempts from British groups to 'blackball' Axis groups with HJ children. Why? I have spoken to Veterans from both sides who have no problem with this. Also, all german children from the age of ten between 1933 to 1945 were HJ/BDM, and in uniform every afternoon after school. So, to not have children in uniform is highly unauthentic. As it is The Second Battle Group and the Luftwaffe Historical Group both have children who have won recent awards at Beltring and Detling for 'Best Child Impression', portraying both HJ and BDM respectively.

I have heard people get very upset about seeing children re-enacting Axis, and when I press them to tell me why they never have a good reason, other than the common answer "I don't like it." If you are against it can you please clearly outline why. So far no-one has complained about the boy soldiers that some Russian re-enactment groups have. So why is that OK? Stopping children from being HJ/BDM is basically whitewashing the past and going into denial about history. It should be portrayed Warts and All so that we, and the future generations, can learn from it to prevent the same mistakes from happening again.

I am interested to see where this thread goes. So far you can spot the parents. The ones against children in re-enactment always talk about events as a weekend 'for boys only', away from the women and children. Well, I'm sorry to spoil your dream guys, but this is the 21st century. My son has already developed a deep interest in history, and I encourage as many as possible to join him in an age where many consider 'History is Bunk'.

As you can no doubt tell this subject gets my goat. I hope people understand where I am comming from. I will now put down my soapbox and step away to a safe distance.

5 years old?? and already developed a deep interest in history??
I think a 5 year old should be playing in a sandbox, free from sorrows and the awefull details of WWII.
Just my opinion ..... ouch Should of seen it coming.

[Tom M]

Ancasta.

I agree overall in your statement.

To All.

I am quite offended when we talk about age here. I'm 15, I can watch (in theory) movies that involve a high sense of violence, language, sex etc. Next year I can smoke blah blah. Age is not all important at all. Intelligence and maturity. That is what sorts the men from the boys. Basically what you are saying is that we can collect the uniforms badges, show and tell, have a good time and learn from these pieces BUT we can't see them in action/ participate and wear them. Sorry no crediblity in your argument in my view.

[Ancasta]

This topic will run and run!

I have seen children dressed as WW2 Russian soldiers. But who they were with I don't know.

As for my son, he plays in his sandbox....with his toy soldiers...builds castles...loves watching children's history programmes.

I see that there is a spot of cultural divide going on here too, as the British and Americans clearly have different views about what children do. The children who re-enact HJ and BDM have some parts explained to them. They are aware it was a political organisation, and something that was enforced. But some of you are still avoiding the fact that parents do bring their children along to events, and they want to take part just as everybody else. To dump the kids on your partner while you are off having fun for the weekend [before you argue, many people do this] is unfair and selfish. Most groups have very high standards of authenticity, and this must include children. In the case of Axis re-enactment children, to not be in some sort of uniform by the age of ten would make them instant FARBS.

To let the whole family take part and portray a part of history is a great way of getting the public to ask questions. Children can learn about the bad side of war [how many children do you see in the street pretenting to shoot each other?], and yes, politics. Hopefully they will learn from the past to prevent this happening again in the future.

I would prefer my son wearing a uniform for the weekend and learn why some people think it brings back bad memories then spend the same saturday and sunday watching violent action films or stuck in front of a gamesconsole playing a violent game like grand theft @uto. At least he will then understand what the war was all about a lot better and hopefully be able to pass his school history exams in the future [we have modern history tought here in our schools]

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi, although I personally do not have a problem with children being involved per se, I would like to point out that the children dressed in Russian kit that you have seen do not belong to either "2nd Guards Rifle Div" (my unit) or to our comrades in "Zaoberonya" the other WW2 Soviet group in the UK.


Cheers, Ade.

[Jon9]

Well I am still a young teen, I am now 16 years old. I went to school in a German heer uniform with my friend but he went in a British ww2 uniform . We did this for charity and me and my friend raised £100. But I found out I had no problem with any information said to me on that day. Well I tell you what happened, I did a sponsored cross country run outside my school field 40 laps around the fields and public paths. Believe me it was a hell of a run. It gave me some experience on how it must have been like a German solider at the time. I think its good to see children taking part in ww2 German look back events. But this is my opinion.

Well just though I would tell you

Jon,


Oh yeah i did walk though many public area, even across the Zebra crossing lol"hey up"

[junior]

I have no problem with KIDS re-enacting HJ or BDM. I don`t like it when I see a 10 year old re-enacting a WH-soldier, they could do that when they are sixteen. If they are under 16 only HJ or BDM.

IMHO,
Junior.