Desecerated German graves Pitonmik airfield Stalingrad

[jotuntroll]

+1 obersalzberg

[thatswar1944]

+1 obersalzberg

yawn..........................

[jiipee76]

Not many fallen were buried with a Panther track under their coffin.

Those Panther tanks were actually coffins for many germans as did T34 for russian soldiers.Many tank soldiers never received any burial,they were blown to pieces inside tank after direct hit to ammunition inside.

What is the difference in near mint looking helmet taken by US soldier in Normandy front from head of dead german vs ground dug helmet found from russian battlefield?

If you look many helmets that have been in Helmet estand for example,many in very good condition outside but inner leathers are colored by blood.And even without any blood stains inside,how can you tell if the helmet came from dead soldier or from army depot/barracks or any other non battle related?

Very hard to collect war items which are 100% sure not taken from dead soldier.Even the most shiny medals could come directly from chest of dead soldier.

And about war graves in russia...there is many grave yards of 1000´s of german soldiers bulldozed away and houses built over.How does that feel to you?

[Jägermarty]

Bloody grave robbers, disgusting bunch of c****!

[Joe B]

This is no different than robbing an ancient Egyptian or Myan Tomb .
Get real folks , this has been going on since human kind began .

Personally , I remember my GunnerySgt in the Marines tell us " if you kill the enemy and they have better boots or gloves than you , strip them off and use them " hell they dont need it anymore ... " if they have some cool insignia on , cut it off and send it home , F@ck em , It`s your trophy " !
So when some of you whine and complain about artifacts taken from the dead , just remember " to the spoils go the victors " Thats war now deal with it for what it is . When your dead your dead .... GAME OVER !
If you are without a job and need to feed yourself , and you know that there is a Kraut Graveyard around that may contain buckles and helmets that you can get a few bucks for to feed yourself ...then you do what you need to do .

Personally I feel that the human remains should be reburied , but try to put yourself in a persons shoes who has nothing and is desperate .

[pete]

.

This kind of thingis just sad, only people with no soul do this kind of stuff...my wifes Grandfather is likely buried somewhere around there.....

[N.C. Wyeth]

This is no different than robbing an ancient Egyptian or Myan Tomb .
Get real folks , this has been going on since human kind began.

Yes, you are correct . . . time tells us, that this is so . . . or at least . . . we want to believe that it does, yes?

But . . . the question is . . . is this kind of activity acceptable, and something we should not be ashamed of . . . and would continue to promote as being acceptable . . . on EVERY level?

As with anything in Life, there are - what we as human beings would consider - "Grey Areas" . . .

That is the ultimate question being proposed here again . . . and what is "Grey" to some . . . will forever be "Black" to others . . .

As much as I hate to say - this is the World we live in - like it, or not.

[Jägermarty]

This kind of thingis just sad, only people with no soul do this kind of stuff...my wifes Grandfather is likely buried somewhere around there.....

Indeed, my Opa is vermißt in Roumania, I can imagine this desecration goes on there too

[juoneen]

Maybe it time the German collectors or vets kids , get off their soap boxes and do as the japanese still do, and go where the battles were, and reclaim their dead.

Its bad enough what the Germans did , and tried to do to anihilate the Russian people, but now that the war is over, I'm sure if the germans who have become successful since WW2 with selling German war trappings and other businesses, should relenquish much of their ill gotten gains, and help fund the removal of their countrymens dead. With gps equipment, and documenting what they find , and where on the battle frields of Russia, it would make interesting reading, and possibly even be an interesting documentary for all.

The Russians likely would applaud getting the dead Germans remains off their land, and possibly even assist in protecting the Germans with the cajones to undertake such an undertaking.

Think about it.....I plant the seed, and it grows from there, or will this idea die here, as maybe its more interesting to see russians defiling the graves and looting the trappings .

This laxidasical attitude on the part of the German countrymen suggests strongly, that possibly the Germans do not care about their dead, as the japanese do, as for the japanese people .. this has gone on for them since the end of the war, and according to their customs they build a pior, and do a religious ceremony after they find all they can in the good season, then burn the remains according to their religious beliefs.

Nobody in German YET , has been outraged enough so far , and started a recovery program of any substantial size, except ,just a few here and there token recoverys , but always done by some other people who did all the work , then reported to the German govt. , then they mosey on in, and do a half hearted pomp and circumstance ceremony that is all show , and for that , IMO, until such a program starts and happens for at least ten years, my opinion of the respect for the Germans dead by the German people of today ,is none at all, and by not purging the russian fields of their dead, this tells me they would rather forget them, as to even their existance, as shameful of a campaign as it was .

So instead holding of anger at russians selling pilfered dug items , my suggestion is simple: NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM RUSSIA GROUND DUG..PERIOD, AND START A PROGRAM OF RECOVERY, OR STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

Imo Germans are the most industrious people in the world, and the hardest working, so why have they ignored not cleaning up the russian killing fields of their mess, I believe it is because they are either afraid or just do not care. Then there is the subject of cleaning the areas where the captured troops were placed in slave labor and gulags post war,,,there is another 100,000+ there waiting to go home also....is there no one who really cares in Germany? I hope so, but am not optimistic.

[paul kennedy]

graves

I am not defending the grave robbers in Russia by any means........but I can't get the thought out of my head that someone who lost many ancestors to an invading force bent on destroying them, may not have the most respect for the remains of said invaders buried on their soil that cost the blood of millions of their countrymen to get back.
I don't know if anyone who didn't grow up in an area that went through that trauma can say these people have no souls. If someone broke into my house with the intent to harm my family, and were killed in the process, I seriously doubt my thoughts would be about ensuring their remains were treated with respect.
I don't intend this to be a self righteous post, I'm just throwing another point of view that we as history buffs might be missing.....

[N.C. Wyeth]

possibly the Germans do not care about their dead, as the japanese do, as for the japanese people .. this has gone on for them since the end of the war, and according to their customs they build a pior, and do a religious ceremony after they find all they can in the good season, then burn the remains according to their religious beliefs.

Ah yes . . . the Japanese . . . let me ask you a question - have the Japanese been, and have they ever been, as apologetic to the rest of the world as the Germans? Let's go ahead and open that wound again . . . maybe?

This subject has nothing to do with the gravity that one country dispenses toward caring for one's dead of the past over the other . . . and if you want to dig deeper into comparing the way Japan and Germany view this subject . . . judging by what you have posted, you have so much more to learn . . .

I am sorry to say, if we, as the World, delivered as much respect for the past to the Germans, as much as we do today for the Japanese, you would have never made such a comment.

[Obersalzberg]

This is no different than robbing an ancient Egyptian or Myan Tomb .
Get real folks , this has been going on since human kind began .

Personally , I remember my GunnerySgt in the Marines tell us " if you kill the enemy and they have better boots or gloves than you , strip them off and use them " hell they dont need it anymore ... " if they have some cool insignia on , cut it off and send it home , F@ck em , It`s your trophy " !
So when some of you whine and complain about artifacts taken from the dead , just remember " to the spoils go the victors " Thats war now deal with it for what it is . When your dead your dead .... GAME OVER !
If you are without a job and need to feed yourself , and you know that there is a Kraut Graveyard around that may contain buckles and helmets that you can get a few bucks for to feed yourself ...then you do what you need to do .

Personally I feel that the human remains should be reburied , but try to put yourself in a persons shoes who has nothing and is desperate .

No need to comment on this really....Your post sums you up perfectly.

[thatswar1944]

Well said chap's
Wayne

[Ostmark]

Thats why i am not buying any relics. Its not "cool" to buy
relics taken from your killed grandfather buried in a "Krautgraveyard" to make the life
of a graverobber (doesnt matter if he is from the east or west) easier.

Some people here get a kick when buying a rusty steel helmet with runes decal (boah a SS helmet from a killed Kraut)
with blood in the liner and a bunch of blond hairs would be best ... this is all about respect from the fallen, some have some have not

Btw how many from the posters here have found a killed soldier lying in his foxhole, thats not so cool as you might think, and i know
what i am talking about

Enough said .....

[Jean-Loup]

It doesnt really matter what happens to the rusty helmets and badges found with these bodies, but when you are a civilized human being, you treat the dead with a minimum of respect, rebury the them, and do what is possible to identify them and inform the authorities of the ID.

Yes, grave robbing has existed for ever, so has murder and rape, it doesnt mean any of those are great things that should be celebrated and encouraged.

What is the difference beween buying a helmet taken off a dead soldier in 1944, and buying a graved robbed helmet? Very simple, when a helmet was taken off a dead guy in 1944, that didnt simultaneously rob him of his identity and the right to have a half decent grave.

JL