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Oradour sur Glane survivor required to pay 10.000 Euros

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    Oradour sur Glane survivor required to pay 10.000 Euros

    Here is an interesting article: http://fr.news.yahoo.com/survivant-d...095355354.html

    It explains that Robert Hebras a survivor from Oradour sur Glane, the French village that was burned to the ground by SS troops in 1944, has been sentenced to have to pay one symbolic Euro, plus 10.000 very real Euros of court fees.
    The reason is that in a book Hebras authored about the Oradour massacre, there is a sentence where he doubts whether Alsacian SS soldiers were really forcefully enlisted into the SS. He say something along the lines of "amongst the handymen, there are a few alsacians ,supposedly forcefully enlisted into the SS".

    This seems to me like a very expensive price to pay for one simple sentence, particularly because it is obvious that although many alsacians may have been forced into the German army, there were certainly also a faire number who volunteered; and Mr Hebras could very well have been refering to these men.

    To me, it seems like condemning Mr Hebras for this is a very political decision, perhaps influenced by France's refusal to accept a page of its own history: that many Frenchmen volunteered to fight in the German army.

    Does anybody know any factual information about Alsacians being forced into the SS? I have read books about those forced into the Heer, but nothing about being forced into the SS. According to the article, it is an established fact that Alsacian men were also forced into the SS. When did this start happening, and why the SS and not the Heer?



    Robert Hébras, un des rares survivants du massacre d'Oradour-sur-Glane en 1944, a été condamné vendredi à un euro symbolique de dommages et intérêts et à 10.000 euros de frais de justice pour avoir, dans un livre, émis des doutes sur le caractère forcé de l'enrôlement d'Alsaciens dans les Waffen SS.
    M. Hébras, 87 ans, "a outrepassé les limites de la liberté d'expression en mettant en doute le caractère forcé et non volontaire de l'incorporation de force de jeunes Alsaciens dans les unités allemandes de Waffen SS", a estimé la cour d'appel de Colmar, donnant ainsi raison aux associations de "Malgré-Nous" qui avaient saisi la justice.
    Oradour-sur-Glane, village du Limousin, avait été le théâtre le 10 juin 1944 d'un massacre perpétré par la division Das Reich, qui fit 642 morts, dont 247 enfants. Parmi les SS figuraient des Alsaciens et Mosellans enrôlés de force par l'occupant allemand.
    Dans son livre "Oradour-sur-Glane, le drame heure par heure", publié pour la première fois en 1992, M. Hébras écrivait que, "parmi les hommes de main, il y avait quelques Alsaciens enrôlés soi-disant de force dans les unités SS". Il avait toutefois nuancé ce propos dans les éditions suivantes publiées à partir de 2004, mais en 2008-2009, un nouveau tirage avait repris la première version, d'où la plainte.
    L'arrêt de la cour contredit la décision de première instance: en octobre 2010, le tribunal de grande instance de Strasbourg avait débouté les Associations des évadés et incorporés de force (Adeif) du Bas-Rhin et du Haut-Rhin qui demandaient le retrait du livre des librairies, en soulignant que l'ouvrage "ne se présente nullement comme une oeuvre historique objective, mais comme un témoignage".
    La cour a estimé au contraire que M. Hébras ne pouvait pas se prévaloir de la qualité de témoin, car à l'époque du massacre "il n'avait pas distingué les Allemands nazis des Alsaciens portant tous le même uniforme" et qu'il était "encore moins témoin de l'incorporation de force des Alsaciens dans les unités allemandes".
    L'incorporation de force, estime la Cour d'appel, est une "vérité historiquement et judiciairement établie".

    #2
    French Nationals at the trial (all from Alsace and all except for Boos, conscripts):
    SS-Unterscharführer … Georges René Boos: SS-Volunteer, awarded Iron Cross II in Russia

    SS-Mann … Paul Graff: the only defendant to admit to killing anyone at Oradour before the trial began

    SS-Mann … Albert Daul

    SS-Mann … Jean-Pierre Elsässer: Elsässer is an appropriate name, as it means, 'Alsatian' in German

    SS-Mann … Louis Hoehlinger: won the Croix de Guerre whilst serving in the French army in Indo-China (present day Vietnam) after the war and before the trial began. In 1953 he was a police inspector in Saigon (present day Ho Chi Minh City) and had travelled from there for his trial.

    SS-Mann … Albert Ochs: wounded twice in the legs on 10 June 1944 by ricochets fired at an old woman by Unterscharführer Steger

    SS-Mann … Joseph Busch

    SS-Mann … Antoine Lohner: won the Croix de Guerre fighting with the French Army against the Germans in 1940

    SS-Mann … Fernand Giedinger

    SS-Mann … Alfred Spaeth: won the French Colonial Medal and the Parachute Badge whilst serving with the French army in Indo-China (present day Vietnam) after the war and before the trial began.

    SS-Mann … Louis Prestel

    SS-Mann … Henri Weber

    SS-Mann … Jean Niess

    SS-Mann … Camille Grienenberger

    It is interesting to note that that some of the Alsatians above show French forenames with German surnames, a good indication of the changing national status of the province over the years.

    Others not present, of both nationalities, but known to be alive, made up an additional 45 persons. Thus the grand total of living persons who were known to have either been at Oradour on the 10th June 1944 or to bear some responsibility for the actions of the soldiers, who were there, was 66.

    Comment


      #3
      'forced'?


      conscription isn't the same as forced.
      Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

      Comment


        #4
        Not sure what you are getting at Simon?
        If refusing the conscription could land you some kind of punishement, then you could also say that you were forced into the army against your will.
        Doing something against your will, under threat ==> forced.

        JL
        Last edited by Jean-Loup; 09-15-2012, 11:50 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          In that case half of the German army was forced as well (not counting hiwi's, ostbataillons...). The reason why forced is used in this context is because these soldiers are considered French.

          Comment


            #6
            "In that case half of the German army was forced as well"

            Exactly. Of course there are different degrees of being forced, but for the few Germans I have interviewed, who were conscripted at age 17, I dont think using the word 'forced' is an exageration...

            Comment


              #7
              10,000 euros would seem excessive.

              Comment


                #8
                one has to wonder about the euro justice system and common sense ... where only PC is right

                10.000 euros is really well over the top for legal fees, write a book, doubt something and the pc police will nail you hard ... sad ....

                Comment


                  #9
                  It seems to me that France still struggles with admitting to collaboration with Germany during the occupation of one degree or another.

                  This man will pay for causing minor embaressment.

                  Chris.

                  Comment

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