German Zepplelins and exploding darts used to target them.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

How fearless British pilots downed giant German Zeppelins using exploding DARTS in the First World War
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 12:46 PM on 18th February 2011

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It was the logical way to take out targets that were essentially massive balloons filled with flammable gas.
When British First World War pilots were asked to destroy German Zeppelins, they did not turn to guns - but a giant exploding dart.
Now one of the foot-long steel-tipped darts is being sold at auction, without the explosives, and is expected to fetch £1,200.
Bullseye: the exploding dart was dropped on German zeppelins by British pilots who leaned over the side of their cockpits

Bullseye: The exploding dart was dropped on German Zeppelins by British pilots who leaned over the side of their cockpits
British biplane pilots would fly above the giant airships - filled with highly flammable hydrogen - lean over the side of the cockpit and drop the darts on top of them.
The projectile was designed to puncture the canvas skin of the balloon, drop inside and then explode, igniting the hydrogen.
Zeppelins successfully targeted would explode in a ball flames - similar to the Hindenburg disaster in 1937 - meaning the pilots had to make a quick escape if they were to avoid going down with the airship.
Sitting target: a German Zeppelin pictured leaving for a bombing raid on London during the First World War The balloons were filled with highly flammable hydrogen

Sitting target: A German Zeppelin pictured leaving for a bombing raid on London during the First World War. The balloons were filled with highly flammable hydrogen
The Aerial Anti Zeppelin Ranken Exploding Dart was invented by Commander Francis Ranken of the Royal Navy in 1915 and was dropped from a height of up to 700ft, but between 300ft and 400ft was the optimum altitude to attack the low-flying German airships.
The example that has turned up for sale at auction is thought to have been a demonstration model, which is why it was never used.

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* Pictured: The 500mph pilot with time for a friendly wave

The metal dart comes in a specially designed wooden box with the other components fixed next to it.
In the First World War, planes were initially not seen as a weapon, but increasingly became so as their potential destructive power was realised.
Dropping bombs was quickly seen to be an effective way to inflict damage on the enemy - and the method of destroying Zeppelins was a refinement.
They were either dropped individually or in clusters.
Steven Bosley, who is selling the dart at auction, said: 'You had to be extremely brave to use these things.
Up in flames: the zeppelins would explode in a fireball similiar to the 1937 Hindenburg disaster, above, when the hydrogen-filled airship burst into flames after hitting a mooring mast

Up in flames: The Zeppelins would explode in a fireball similar to the 1937 Hindenburg disaster, above, when the hydrogen-filled airship burst into flames after hitting a mooring mast
'They are very rare and we believe this example was used as an instructional aid. It was designed to bring down Zeppelins.
'And to do that it was designed to ignite the gas inside, and if you've seen pictures of these things go up you know that the person dropping it would have had to make a quick getaway.
'The plane would have flown above the Zeppelin and the dart was dropped on to the Zeppelin from above.
'The sharp point would pierce the material and then a small charge behind it would explode, igniting the gas.
"They did work apparently, and they showed how quickly air warfare became part of the overall conflict.'
The dart goes up for auction at Bosleys in Marlow, Buckinghamshire, on March 2.


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[Jean-Loup]

I never heard of these darts before.
Actualy, zeppelins were considered hard targets to shoot down, and many of the pilots who did manage to destroy them were awarded Victoria Crosses.

I am not sure what the scientific explanation is, but zeppelins were very resistant to gunfire, and could survive being shot multiple times. In fact this has always been a mystery to me, and I wonder why they did not cath fire, or end up loosing so much hydrogen that they would start loosing altitude.

JL

[buccaneere]

I never heard of these darts before.
Actualy, zeppelins were considered hard targets to shoot down, and many of the pilots who did manage to destroy them were awarded Victoria Crosses.

I am not sure what the scientific explanation is, but zeppelins were very resistant to gunfire, and could survive being shot multiple times. In fact this has always been a mystery to me, and I wonder why they did not cath fire, or end up loosing so much hydrogen that they would start loosing altitude.

JL

Good question about the gunfire effects... The size of a few bullet holes probably didn't exceed the size of a few holes that the material probably already had.

What's the temperature of a discharged bullet? Hot enough to initiate combustion? If not, the only source of spark would be the round striking metal framework, and there was probably greater likeliehood of the rounds exiting the opposite side of the bag.

[Hoss]

First I,ve heard of them being bombed. Great thread.
Gents
L34 was shot down near my hometown 1916 (no I was,nt there to see it!)
Please allow me a few minutes to download, I think you will enjoy.....
First the pics I have.

[Hoss]

2
Letter to his mother..

[Hoss]

3
Local paper report..

[Hoss]

more info..

On the night of the 27th of November, 1916, 2nd Lieutenant Ian Pyott flying a BE2c number 2738 attacked and shot-down Zeppelin L34 (LZ.78). Accounts of this feat often recall that he flew so close that his face was scorched by the exploding aerial wreckage. Pyott was awarded the D.S.O.

Pyott, from South Africa, was based with 36 Squadron out of Seaton Carew. As one account tells it, “At 11.30 p.m. the L34, under Kapitanleutnant Max Dietrich, crossed the coast at Blackhall Rocks and flew over Castle Eden where she was caught in the beam of the Hutton Henry Searchlight.” Pyott was flying at 9800ft and was above the airship which was heading Southwards and towards him. “She dropped 13 HE near the searchlight without doing any damage. She was then spotted by 2nd Lieutenant L.V.Pyott flying a Bristol FE2c of 36 Squadron out of Seaton Carew. The L34 headed back out to sea over West Hartlepool where 16 bombs were dropped damaging 40 houses, killing 4 people and injuring 34. 2nd Lieutenant Pyott followed the airship for some 5 miles firing at every opportunity, and after firing 71 rounds he noticed a bright patch on the airship which rapidly spread engulfing the whole machine in flames. Pyott dived rapidly to avoid the flames but suffered burns to his face. The flaming wreckage could be seen for miles -it was even seen by a pilot flying over Melton Mowbray. The L34 fell into the sea off West Hartlepool at 11.50 p.m."

.

[Hoss]

Detailed report about the crew..and the raid

The raid during which Max Dietrich and his crew lost their lives was that of the night of 27/28 Nov 1916. According to the story as told by Rimell (1984), around midday on the 27th, Max Dietrich was celebrating his 46th birthday at lunch with two fellow officers of the German Naval Airship Division at the Kasino in Nordholz. The previous days there had been no possibility of operations due to bad weather, but the lunch was interrupted by the news that orders had been recieved for an attack on the English Midlands and that the first airship must be in the air by one o'clock at the latest. During that afternoon ten Zeppelins left their bases, including the L34 commanded by Dietrich. Over the North Sea they flew through cloud, but towards evening the sky cleared and they flew under the bright stars with the Aurora Borealis lighting up the northern horizon. Slow progress was made due to stiff headwinds and it was 22.30 hrs before L34 was over Blackhall Rocks, just north of Hartlepool. Dietrich headed inland over Castle Eden and was then caught by the searchlight at Hutton Henry. Dietrich dropped 13 bombs without any effect, but managed to elude the light. He then decided to turn back, passing over West Hartlepool where he dropped a further 16 bombs. However, he had made the mistake of flying at only 9500ft, and consequently was unable to evade a BE2c up from nearby Seaton Carew airfield. The BE2c was a biplane, not particularly well regarded by aircrew but nevertheless built in large numbers. It had a ceiling of around 11,000ft, and although it must have been spotted by the crew of the L34, which started to climb, and pull away. The BE2c was armed with a Lewis gun, and was able to press home its attack until the Zeppelin caught fire and within minutes was completely ablaze. The burning wreckage fell into the sea about 1800yds east of the Heugh lighthouse.

According to information provided by the Rank Lists of the Imperial German Navy, in 1914 Dietrich was awarded the Roter-Adler Orden, 4. Klasse (Order of the Red Eagle, 4th class, a Prussian decoration), and this was probably on account of his breaking the British blockade. Later, in 1916 he was awarded the Iron Cross, 1st class and Das Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse mit Schwerten des herzoglich Sachsen - Ernestinischen Hausordens. These decorations may have been posthumous.

.

[Hoss]

Thanks Gents

Eric

[Don D.]

I think they were filled will a nonflammable gas, perhaps helium, initially.

[Hoss]

I think they were filled will a nonflammable gas, perhaps helium, initially.

Sorry Don
They were filled with hydrogen first war. The brits used phosphorus rounds.

Eric

[Brad Posey]

Sorry Don
They were filled with hydrogen first war. The brits used phosphorus rounds.

Eric

Agree, that is why the Hindenburg burned up so quickly

.

[Hoss]

Agree, that is why the Hindenburg burned up so quickly

.

Regarding the Hindenburg, Germany wanted to use Helium but America had a block on its use.

Eric

[Jean-Loup]

"Good question about the gunfire effects... The size of a few bullet holes probably didn't exceed the size of a few holes that the material probably already had.

What's the temperature of a discharged bullet? Hot enough to initiate combustion? If not, the only source of spark would be the round striking metal framework, and there was probably greater likeliehood of the rounds exiting the opposite side of the bag. <!-- / message -->"


I remember reading WW1 accounts where the pilots fired incendiary bullets at zeppelins, without any effet...
Considering the metal framework in the zeppelins, even regular bullets would have a very good chance of striking a metal part and producing a spark.

I think the explanation is probably the following: hydrogen does not burn or explode unless oxygen is also present. (I beleive the formula of the combustion is 2 H2+02 gives 2 H20) Since the the zeppelin was filled with pure helium, I guess it couldnt catch fire untill a certain amount of oxygen had also managed to penetrate it, making the mixture inflamable...

But I was always smilling about how on one hand when speaking about the Hindenburg, you always hear claims that "a single spark was capable of destroying it..."
Then on the other hand you hear about how hard it was for WW1 pilots to shoot a zeppelin down, even when firing entire drums of ammo into it.

JL

[Hoss]

Jean
Those early phosphorus rounds only had a range of a couple of hundred metres. The killer had to get real close.
The WW1 Zeppelin was filled with hydrogen in a huge sack made from cattle guts and the lumps were powered by 'Blue gas' not petrol.
The Hindenburg disaster I thought was caused by the ground crew not properly 'grounding' the ship when it docked, being full of static after the long voyage. Most ships had trailing 'nose lead' cables that also doubled as an anti static cable.

Dont understand this helium debate?

Eric