Possible mass grave in the La Rochelle region

[Tommygunn]

A while ago my parents, now living in the West of France, told me a story of a mass grave of German soldiers in close proximity to where they now live.
On visiting them this Christmas I asked about it again and the story is thus.

At some point, after moving to their house in France, they got chatting to their retired neighbours next door, of whom the lady, at least, has pretty much lived her whole life in the village.
In conversation they got onto the subject of the war and the lady recounted how a group of Germans, either passing through or camped nearby, were looking for food, apparently under strict orders to buy and not steal. They ventured to a nearby farm on the back of their truck to see if the farmer had anything for trade.
At some point the Maquis abushed the group and all were shot.
The bodies were apparently just thrown into a nearby shallow pit which the lady says she actually fell into while taking a farm animal to be watered/fed.
At some point later on, the bodies were buried i.e. someone local simply filled the hole in with soil.

My opinion on this matter is that these soldiers should be exhumed, if the grave exists, and given a proper burial. However, memories of the war and the Germans tend to die hard in this area and information is hard to come by.
The main problem is that the woman next door still recalls where the pit is but is unwilling to say where it is exactly.
My parents were only having a friendly conversation at the time and obviously didn't even think to push the point, but the impression was that she was not overly willing to give out the information.

What do you suggest?

Tom.

[Thorsten B.]

You are on the right track for sure.

The inhabitants do not feel good about the whole thing and try to hide themselves and their insecurity how to deal with that negative part of the village´s history behind a psychological wall they bhave built up just by keep quiet about what happened through all the years.

In fact it is a wound in their own past which they do not want to remember.

On the one hand because they were occupied and have perhaps witnessed cruel things done by Germans within the period of occupation - on the other hand because they know that it was wrong killing these german soldiers (in their angry eyes back then a symbol of the enemy which they wanted to get rid off one way or the other and as soon as possible) as well.

So there are at least two sides and reasons why their is a wound in their memory and local history - and all they do by keep silence over that case is keepings the wound alive and it still hurts, hurts so bad that they do not speak also because they feel guilty although it was war and they fought the enemy and blablabla... in the end they do not feel comfy.

The wound needs to heal!

[Tommygunn]

Funny thing is, that there is no love lost for the Maquis in that area since it turns out that they were a right rabble who were quite happy to strip the locals of everything they had for their own ends.

It is all very complicated.

Should I drop it or find some way to circumvent this?

Tom.

[Gary Jucha]

If

If the site is identified, report it with full details to the authorities, and let them decide how it should be handled.

[HouweTrouwe]

Contact Volksbund with as much as possible information. I always recieve(d) great replies and help when I helped them and we still do.

[Thorsten B.]

Ha, if you try to handle it that way some local authorities may love to put it under the carpet as well.

You need to step forward in a smart way - you need to be patient and talk to the people.

Is there no history teacher in a school who could arrange a project for a class regarding this matter.

Like: hey, let´s find out what happened during the war in our village?

If you do not ask the inhabitants they will never speak.

The most important thing is that they should not be ashamed or feel personally guilty about that.
If you wait too long this wound can never heal since in a very short time all witnesses will be dead.


Speak to officials from the Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge - they know how to handle such a case!

[HouweTrouwe]

Contact Volksbund with as much as possible information. I always recieve(d) great replies and help when I helped them and we still do.

Write them personally at:

Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge e.V.
Bundesgeschäftsstelle
Werner-Hilpert-Straße 2
D 34112 Kassel


Tip: DO NOT SEND E-Mail.

[Gary Jucha]

Why

I don't understand why the villagers should feel ashamed ?
The Germans at the time were sworn enemies on French soil, They were not the villagers friends, and after the Germans were killed, they couldn't care less about them.

There is no guilt there.

If the modern generation wants to clear away the debris of war, then so be it, but don't think the locals cried themselves to sleep over these soldiers, they were the hated invader and they paid the price.

[Jean-Loup]

First thing: do not inform local authorities, police, or Gendarmerie; or let any locals know what you are planing. Also do not post any details like the name of the village on the internet, or here, as black diggers read everything we post.

Try to get a local french person to help you (if you are not 100% fluent in French yourself) in your research by asking any elders in the village about the story. Dont ask about the grave at first, just ask what happened here during the war. This way you will be able to locate more possible witnesses. Usualy if the story is true, the whole village should know about it. Some will be ashamed, and others will be very happy to tell you about all the details.

If the story is confirmed, ask the Volksbund if any exhumations have been done in the area. The vast majority of these graves have been found, though locals dont always know about it.

If the Volksbund did not exhume the bodies already, then with them or by yourself, try to locate the exact area where the grave is.

Once again, do not inform any local authorities, as they could then prevent the Volksbund from doing their work, and block the whole procedure.

From my experience, chances are the story is not true at all, and if it is, the grave was probably found long ago. However, there is a small chance it is still there, so you should investigate further.

Finaly, do not count on the Volksbund to invest much energy in this, they are usualy only interested once the first bone is found, so dont hesitate to do as much research on your own as possible, or with a local trustworthy allie.

JL

[Tommygunn]

Thanks JL, I was about to PM you to have a look at my post.

As you say I am going to keep this very covert since the last thing I want is to upset the village and have my parents run out of town, so to speak.

I should just clarify a few things.
My parents are English and obviously so am I. Unfortunately, they are there and I am a 1000 miles away in Italy.
The next opportunity I will have to be there will be in the summer, however, if I can get some solid info I might be able to get there sooner.

The first thing I should do is to have my Mum, who's French is pretty good (unlike my Dad's), to sensitively broach the subject and take it from there.

Also, I will contact the Volksbund to ask if they have done any exhumations in the area.

HouweTrouwe, said to contact them by letter. Would this be prudent or for a general exhumation enquiry (i.e. to ask if they have done any work in the area) are they reliable on the email?

Tom.

[Jägermarty]

Interesting story, would be nice if they are found if out there.
There's probably a story of reprisals as well if a group did just disappear, that would be recorded in local archives, might be a lead for more info.
Keep us posted.

[Daniel.S]

, as black diggers read everything we post.

Jean, out of curiosity, so if someone posted a place where german soldiers are buried in an unmarked grave some people would dig them out just to see if theres anything valuable on them?

[prussian.guard]

Jean, out of curiosity, so if someone posted a place where german soldiers are buried in an unmarked grave some people would dig them out just to see if theres anything valuable on them?

its very sad but yes bones would be tossed aside and anything on them stolen and sold.

[Jean-Loup]

"Jean, out of curiosity, so if someone posted a place where german soldiers are buried in an unmarked grave some people would dig them out just to see if theres anything valuable on them? "

Yes, some people would. Even in France I have heard of cases of people stealing the bones of soldiers to sell them.

It is not just a question of black diggers, but also of the press, local authorities, archeologists, forensic doctors, the Volksbund, etc.
Basicaly, finding a body can interest many groups of people for historical reasons, advertising reasons, legal reasons, etc. If you have a good lead, and dont want other groups interfearing with your research, and parasiting off your work, then it is best not to inform them of anything.