My trip to Poland - Part II - Plaszow and Amon Göth's house

[IchHattEinenKameraden]

Hi. I keep on posting pics of my trip to Poland. Now is the turn of Plaszow concentration camp. This camp became very famous since the film "The Schindler's list" was made. Everybody who has seen that movie, will remember the camp, and the infamous kommandant Amon Göth, shooting with his kar98 from the balcony of his house. The camp is located in a suburb of Krakow, and it was completely dismantled when russians where approaching in 1945. It was used to exterminate the jews from the Krakaw ghetto and nowadays only a memorial ground is left along with some rememberance plaques and some fundations. It's more like a park nowadays. One cannot imagine what was there. Near the camp, there are still some houses from the SS men and the villa of the commandant, Amon Göth, with the infamous balcony. There's also a big house, known as "gray house". The camp was built in the same place of 2 jewish cemeteries, and the gravestones were used for the pavement of the road to the camp.

When you talk about the movie you are certainly correct but it is not historically correct. Gravestones were never used as pavement, that's pure jewish propaganda.

I wont go into other insinuations displayed here because it would result that i get banned.

[Gernika81]

Maybe Schindler's list isn't historically correct. As long as I know, the Plaszow KZ had a road with gravestones from the former burial ground as pavement. Even some of those stones were still there (I couldn't find them, though) I was to Treblinka too and there I am sure that they were used for that purpose. If you visit the museum of Treblinka, some gravestones are shown in the exhibition, gravestones which were used as road pavement for the road to the camp, and found near the camp itself by the owner of the museum. Some witnesses, for instance the SS Unterschaführer Franz Suchomel, a guard who worked in the camp said it was true. I mean, it could be possible that it also happened in Plaszow as there is enough evidence that a road like that existed in Treblinka. Of course, I cannot tell if it existed at all.

[LarryHW.]

When you talk about the movie you are certainly correct but it is not historically correct. Gravestones were never used as pavement, that's pure jewish propaganda.

I wont go into other insinuations displayed here because it would result that i get banned.

Yeah, you should be banned. This is supposed to be a website for serious history, not revisionists, which you clearly are. A Nazi sympathizer in Holland? You have to hope that most of those you come into contact with know nothing about WWII. Most people in your country with either direct memory of WWII or in-depth knowledge of those years would not give you the time of day. I wonder why??

[pzrwest]

I haven't seen a movie yet that was completely correct. It is a great thing that the Allies ended Hitler's regine of terror and his obsession to eradicate a whole group of people. As for the Dutch people I have never seen such gratitude for the liberation of their country and how they continue to treat the veterns with such high reguard and respect

[LarryHW.]

Spot on. The vast, vast majority of Dutch people have NO positive memories of the Nazi occuplation and eagerly awaited its end. Their gratitude toward the Allies was deep and genuine. In that context, I don't think many of them would view historical revisionists too kindly. They, and their parents and grandparents, knew too much to play in that sandbox.

Most here have a serious interest in history--witness the pictures posted in this section--and don't want to hear from revisionists who seek to revise historical facts that don't square with their agendas. Sorry if anyone is upset. Only calling it as i see it.

I haven't seen a movie yet that was completely correct. It is a great thing that the Allies ended Hitler's regine of terror and his obsession to eradicate a whole group of people. As for the Dutch people I have never seen such gratitude for the liberation of their country and how they continue to treat the veterns with such high reguard and respect

[VtwinVince]

History is constantly being revised, that is the job of historians. All this finger-pointing about 'revisionists' is just another way to stifle discussion and continue with a lot of outlandish propaganda which has been disseminated since the war for political and economic reasons. For instance, if I say that the Poles were amongst Europe's worst anti-Semites prior to the German invasion, is that 'revisionism'? No, it is historical fact, conveniently forgotten by the present government of Poland.

[Matthew]

...

Moving experience and great picture report-thanks Ricardo.
I remember when attending elementary school in Poland, every class (grade 5 if memory serves) would travel to Auschwitz for a field trip. It was a mandatory trip. Too bad there was no international student exchange in Poland at that time.
cheers
Matt

[N.C. Wyeth]

In January of 2015, the villa where Amon Göth lived found a new owner - Krakow company Dabster . . . reputed to be a company that provides services in the design and construction of industrial facilities.

The previous owner held out for many years, in hope the villa would become [part of] a Museum - but sounds as if that hope was finally lost . . .

Wonder what changes are in store for that place? These are a couple of photos from a Polish newspaper, taken just after the sale was completed in January . . . anyone have newer photos that show any recent transformations, or changes since the news was announced?

[Theodor]

Are you sure it's the same balcony, same house? I see zero match in the two houses - on the period photo and on the modern photo. Where there's a roof behind the man standing, there is a flat facade on the modern picture. And where the balcony-level roof tiles must be on the side, there is nothing, other houses are seen in the distance.

[Jean-Loup]

I agree Theo, that house doesnt seem to match up at all.


"Gravestones were never used as pavement, that's pure jewish propaganda."

Here is some more Jewish propaganda for you...

[Jean-Loup]

"Jewish propaganda"

[N.C. Wyeth]

Are you sure it's the same balcony, same house? I see zero match in the two houses - on the period photo and on the modern photo. Where there's a roof behind the man standing, there is a flat facade on the modern picture. And where the balcony-level roof tiles must be on the side, there is nothing, other houses are seen in the distance.

I think it is fairly well documented, that this is indeed, the correct house. The reason you do not see immediate similarity, is explained in the news article about the recent sale:

http://wyborcza.pl/1,75478,17275337,Plaszow__Willa_okrutnego_komendan ta_sprzedana.html

Has the building been preserved from times of its most famous tenant? - After the war, at least twice the house was rebuilt, and inhabited by several families. The only thing left of the house, from the time of occupation, would be the bath - says Marcin Grabiec.

The building is in absolute ruin condition, left unkempt by the previous owner - Arthur Niemyski.

In 1992, Jan Grabiec, an entrepreneur from Makow Podhalanski found a sale listing in a newspaper, and bought the villa as an investment. He [apparently] did not know Amon Goeth lived in the home, until set designers working on the film "Schindler's List" knocked on the door one day. The filmmakers were reconstructing parts of the Plaszow concentration camp on the edge of the quarry Lebanon, and wanted to see the villa for helping to design the set.


PS - As an aside, there is a short film out there ["Inheritance"], documenting a return visit to the Villa, by Amon's daughter - accompanied by Helen Jonas, a camp survivor. I found it intriguing, and well worth watching.

[N.C. Wyeth]

The article also mentions the intent of the new Owner's desire to restore the villa . . . and this is why I brought the topic back from the abyss - I would hope that anyone who visits the site over the next coming months, would be kind enough to keep us all up-to-date on the impending [?] changes . . .

[luftwaffenkopf]

When you talk about the movie you are certainly correct but it is not historically correct. Gravestones were never used as pavement, that's pure jewish propaganda.

I wont go into other insinuations displayed here because it would result that i get banned.

here is some more "jewish propaganda" for ya, sport

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ombstones.html

what you accredit the truth is pure anti-Semitic propaganda. what exactly makes someone hate the Jews? jealousy???

i misspoke, who in their right mind would envy their history of systemic and casual extermination and discrimination?

[N.C. Wyeth]

Sometimes, you just gotta' do things for yourself . . .

The article also mentions the intent of the new Owner's desire to restore the villa . . . and this is why I brought the topic back from the abyss - I would hope that anyone who visits the site over the next coming months, would be kind enough to keep us all up-to-date on the impending [?] changes . . .

Since I didn't get an answer to my own question, I decided to go and see for myself . . .

As of three weeks ago, the house was still intact - but in very bad shape. When I arrived, this is what I found . . .

I discovered the front gate was open - so I decided to take a look around. The inside of the place appears to be practically "gutted" - with most of the stuff having been tossed into the back and side yard.

At first, I thought it was being prepared for demolition . . . but when I started to head up the road [to find some of the remaining SS guard house structures], a neighbor came out, and offered some information about the recent status of the building. Apparently, the house has been purchased by a young gentlemen - and he is in the process of fixing it up.

She wouldn't tell me much more than that . . . so if anyone happens to discover any additional news, please be kind enough to post back here.