Rennacting Question

[John F.]

Hello:</O
<O
I do not know much about your hobby but I have always found it interesting and was curious to know how you guys do your reenactments? Do you play them out historically or do you play a “what if scenario”? If you play out battles historically, depending on what side you are on do you get tired of winning or lossing all the time? How and who determines who gets killed? At what level do you reenact, squad, platoon, or company? How do you determine rank? Does every one have the same unit insignia and uniforms or is everyone different? Where do you get your time period weapons and do they fire blanks? How much does it cost? I would imagine this hobby is fun and is as expensive as collecting TR memorabilia.

<O

Thanks,
John

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, wow! lots of questions. I will answer them as best as I can? There maybe slightly different answers from US members, as I am from the UK, I have found some things are done a little differently in the States.

Here in the UK we do two types of events.
Public shows: where a stage managed "battle" is put on. This is scripted and will follow as near as possible an actual engagement, if the units taking part actually fought each other; or it will be again scripted but be a "somewhere in France in July 1944" scenario.
Private battles: these will be what are known as "taticals" in the States. These are not scripted as such, other than one side will defend and the other will attack. Often the roles will be reversed during a weekend event to give both sides the chance to do something different. In these events umpires will be present to decide on "kills" but much of the time this is self policed. Small unit tactics are practiced taken from WW2 field manuals.

Units in the UK vary in size, but platoon strength is the norm for an average event.

Rank: different units have different ideas on this, but most are very sensible about it and have a correct proportion of men/nco's/ officers. In the two units I am in, rank is determined by age and experience against the correct historical proportions of men to NCO's etc.

Uniform: very strict rules are laid down. Uniforms and insignia may only be bought from certain approved suppliers only. Very important as the whole point is to look "uniform" and historically correct.

Weapons: in the UK (this is where things will differ from the US ) Bolt action rifles are held on a firearms licence. You have to apply to the Police for this and checks are made into your background, the reason why you want the weapon, etc. Rifles have to be stored in a Police approved pattern steel gun cabinet. The licence is issued for 5 years, after this you have to renew it. We cannot have "live "pistols (these all are outlawed in the UK, other than black powder stuff), other than purpose made blank fires only. Semi auto rifles, SMG's and LMG's can be hired from specially licenced dealers at certain large events only. Average hire cost is £25 per day, plus blanks. Lots of ID required for this. De-activated weapons are also used for public living history events.

Cost: this will vary on what unit you join, US, Brit or German or Soviet, and who they represent. I would say expect to spend a minimum £1000 to kit your self out in basic "line Infantry" uniform and kit of any nationality. Costs go up if you choose AB, Waffen SS, etc..

Fun: Sure! I have been at this since 1979. For me, part of it is the comradeship and freindships made. And to experience a little tiny bit of what it was like to be a soldier in WW2.

Cheers, Ade.

[John F.]

Ade:<O

Thank you for your time and the detailed answers!

John<O

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, no probs! Any other question please fire away


Cheers, Ade.

[PaulR]

Hey John,

I am a re-enactor as well. The previous post summed it up. I have attached the website of my unit as well as some outfitters. You can research from these resources with some first hand info.

It is great to hear from you again :-)

Here is our unit... We give a pretty good description of what we do. There are a lot of links to other units you can check out as well...both Axis and Allied:

http://www.3pgd.org/

Here are a couple of the major outfitters of the gear that was mentioned. It is kinda costly as you can see.

http://www.lostbattalions.com
http://www.atthefront.com

We use live weapons with blanks. The semi-autos and autos have the blank firing adaptors...

Thanks
Paul reck

[Ardennes]

.......

John -

I think these posts have covered everything well - it really is different in each "region"....depends on the local gun laws, history interest and having land or a place to "play"...

Most of our battles in the Midwestern US see squad size participation from a unit, so, depending on the theme of the event, a squad may be working independently or may be grouped with another unit as a Kampfgruppe. Most of the tacticals have a set time period and location, but are not anymore specific from that...a side may have a list of objectives or just be placed on the defensive/offensive. Typically (IMO) the more involved a scenario is, the more trouble there is. ..HOWEVER, when you have super involved scenario that works, it is a lot of fun! last fall we fought in a tactical in which the host unit had recruited people to dress in period civilian attire and act as judges - it really worked well...but it was a lot of work for them to do.

we have units (axis & allies) that have battled each other for years and the "vets" keep things in line and you have some great battles....other times you have newer units that don't always play well with each other....

any other questions? feel free to ask away!

our unit website: http://home.comcast.net/~soldat/

[John F.]

Thank you all for the input!

John

[Allan P.]

Hi Ade,

Are you saying that reenactors in the UK actually have real weapons!!

I would have thought that only deacts would be allowed.

And one can hire a blank firing weapon too?

Greatest admiration and respect to you and your colleagues for keeping the memory alive lest people forget the great debt we owe those who made the ultimate sacrifice in war for us.

Allan

[Mark S.]

I have a couple questions..

What about awards? Do people get any type of valor awards? How are they awarded? I dont suppose you can just show up with a RK around your throat, can you?

Are there actual WW II Vets there as advisors? Are they vets of the battles being portrayed, or are they just some veteran that was in WW II?

Regarding spectators and vets - Are there any incidents of the event being a little "to close to home" for some of the elderly attendees? I dont suppose you have ever had anyone have a flashback have you?

Going beyond the uniform and gear, do any reenactors use make-up to give themselves that "war torn" look..you know, that sunken eye stare I always see in pictures.

last question..With all this money being spent on gear, arent the guys a little worried of ruining it from crawling through mud and stuff? Dont thier uniforms get a little tattered after a few engagements? Are they expected too keep it spiffy, or does this add to "the look"?

[Kloster]

Mark

Im not a member of such unit myself, yet - I've been thinking about joining and such i have been scanning the net for varius units (in hope of finding one in Denmark) - and as such i have seen many diff. rules and regulations about awards - They are "earned" in someway or another - one cant just join the first day with a "Über soldat" look, there are many diff. ways of earn thoese awards, usaly earning a EK requires you to act save a person during a event from a vary hostil thing, eg saving someone who have been heavly wounded in Real Life.

Some units w/ cuff titels only allow a Cuff after the member has been in a good standing for a certean amout of time, rules and regulations varius from unit to unit - the best thing would to try the internet for information about a certean unit

Kloster

[Sal Williams]

Ade,
How do they regulate so no live ammo gets in by accident? Also what about close range blank firing? Isn't that potentially hazardous?
Best, Sal

[Ardennes]

....

again, it changes from place to place and unit to unit.

each engagement has a safety inspection and all ammo is supposed to be inspected. safety is stressed, but sadly not always as much as it should be. In the past year I've had several complaints about blanks going off to close to my head - comes down to the unit teaching its members and policing its members too.
award requirements differ by unit. For the most part, units try and weed out little Napoleons and have some stringent criteria. For example, in my unit, a tank destruction badge follows the original requirements - a soldat can't use a panzerschreck or act as part of a team, he has to have "knocked out" a tank singlehandedly with a panzerfaust, handgrenade, or improvised mine/explosive placed by hand. Rank is based on years in, service to unit, and position. Some units vote on squad leader, others rotate responsibility, and others operate under a dictator. I know it is a stretch to balance rank and awards with history, but it would look just as silly to have a bunch of soldiers with no rank or awards as it would to have a group loaded with awards..well sorta

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Guys, lots of questions to answer so I will try and answer you each in turn.


Hi Allan, thanks for the kind comments. De act weapons are used for all living history events; but for battle re-enactments we do need something that can still "fire". The Police are now quite willing to see re-enactment as a valid "good reason" to issue a firearms certificate.

Hi Mark, the awards and qualifcation badge issues are taken very seriously. In most units the same type of award criteria as the original has to be forfilled. German units try to follow the original rules; wound badge in black for one wound that requires medical attention. The safety record is very good and few are earned! Bravery awards are often translated into "service to the unit" merit type awards.
I can speak as a member of two Allied units; one British Airborne and one Soviet.
Dealing with Brit issues first: Parachute wings are earned; you have to have jumped to wear them. Awards are not really an issue with portraying a British unit as our Govt. issued so few of them! Glider troopers badge = 5 flights in a glider. All this costs money of course, but at least you have experienced a little of what the Vets did.
Our Soviet unit issues our "Guards" badges for taking part in 10 days of events. The Combat Merit medal for taking part in four weekends doing private tactical events. These are all awards in true Russian style. The Russian soldiers called this "rinsing the medal". The award is placed in a large glass of Vodka; the glass has to be emptied in one, catching the medal in your teeth as you down the drink! These are presented at morning or evening parades.
Veterans: most units now strive to have links with the Vets of the units they portray. Our British unit has been made honourary members of the 21st Indep. Para. Coy. Vets association. They hope that we will keep their association alive after they are all gone. Which we certainly will! We often have one or two in attendance at our events, complete in Red berets and medals.
With regards to Vets reactions to "battle" events we have had one or two comment that it brought memories back of lost comrades, but not in a bad or negative way.
"Getting the look": this is really best achived by living as the Vets did, by living in a hole in the ground and getting dirty and only partially being washed. I have never seen make up used, other than face paint or a burnt cork to black the face and hands. In our Brit unit everyone shaves in the morning, using original kit and normally out of a mess tin and this makes a good display to the public. Conversly in our Russian unit, dirt and scruffiness is almost a virtue It convays a more accurate impression of the Red Army in the field in WW2.
Most re-enactors will not mind getting their kit dirty and used. Actual use will put the wear in all the right places. Most will actually buy a second "best" uniform for evening walking out wear.

Hi Kloster, sounds like you have been reading a few websites I hope that you can find a group in Denmark.

Hi Sal, in Britain all live ammo is very strictly controlled. A single live round will require a Firearms Certificate to be held. Possesion without it will invite a jail sentance, I kid you not! So the odds are non would turn up; firearms licence holders are very careful, responsible, Police vetted people. But systems are in place to ensure the blanks used are of an approved type and bought only from an approved supplier. Ammo checks are held before any event.
Blanks rounds are never aimed directly at a person and safety distances are strictly observed. If a person is too close, you do not fire. I have seen very, very, few accidents in the 25 + years I have taken part in events. None of them were serious and non required hosptial treatment. A non firearm related accident is much more likey, such as a trip or fall.

Well guys, I think I have coverd it all? But please ask away if I have missed anything?

Cheers, Ade.

[David F]

All i can say is WOW. I have never taken a major look at re-enactment(there are a few medieval groups in my area) but i must admit that the way you have answered the questions has really caught my attention.I did not realise that people went through so much to follow a hobby is to be commended.
Many thanks for the insight into your hobby.I am now going to go through the rest of this part of the forum,i part i may add that i have not really read.
Many thanks
David F