Russia's WW2 Battlefields visit.

[Jaegerhando]

Hi guys, I will be flying to Moscow, Russia for about 6 days. In this time, I want to visit as many WW2 battlefields of the Waffen SS vs. Soviets as I can.
I also want to visit Stalingrad.
My desire is to visit the area around Moscow where the German Army came as close to the city as they could, as well as, possibly Rzhev, Viyazma, Kursk (Prohkorvka), Stalingrad (volgograd), Rostov, Kharkov.
As I said, I only have 6 days, so I need to choose wisely. I definitely will visit Stalingrad and Kursk in the 6 days I have. It's going to be a whilrwind tour with i day visits to these sites each and then a train or plane at night to the next city. I know that a train to Kursk from Moscow takes about 8 hours...

So, could you guys please recommend any sites that are a must see and what tour operators I can hire and what battlefield tour books I should get?
Thanks

[female service]

you must visit KUBINKA
http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

[Russ Schulke]

1st: Subrub of Katyushki (Moscow)

Jaegerhando,

I see you are South Korean and most likely don’t speak Russian, so from my 20+ years experience in Russia and distance between military sites you would like to visit, the most you be able to see is 3, 4 if plans go 100% correct, they won’t.

The first,” how close did the Germans get to the center of Moscow” is very easy. Because you will be flying internationally you will landed at Domodedovo Airport. Then take a taxi to the Sheremetyevo airport, then north and east to the suburb of Katyushki. It’s about 4 Kilometers from the arrival/departure gate at Sheremetyevo. Your there!!!

These are likely the museums that would interest you:

http://www.russianmuseums.info/M300

http://www.peachmountain.com/5star/M...eum_Moscow.asp

http://www.moscow.info/museums/centr...es-museum.aspx






Russ

www.fireonthevolga.com

[Jaegerhando]

Thanks for the info guys. Anyone know of any tour operators to Kursk and Stalingrad, Rostov?

[bnz. 42]

If you will be there only for 6 days, you will not see very much even in Moscow 6 days is just a very little time for such a big city as Moscow and country as Russia, especially if you are there on your own. Plan to visit one museum/a day - at best.

you must visit KUBINKA
http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

If you are not are not Russian citizen - you need a permission to visit that museum:
http://www.tankmuseum.ru/inf-faq.html

[Jaegerhando]

If you will be there only for 6 days, you will not see very much even in Moscow 6 days is just a very little time for such a big city as Moscow and country as Russia, especially if you are there on your own. Plan to visit one museum/a day - at best.
If you are not are not Russian citizen - you need a permission to visit that museum:
http://www.tankmuseum.ru/inf-faq.html

Thanks, but all I really want to do on this 6 day visit is to tour the battle areas. I will visit the museums, Kremlin, St Basil's etc on my second visit. But on my first visit, I want to visit battlefields such as Kursk, Stalingrad, Voronezh, Khaorkov etc.

[tracman]

I might very well be wrong, but the idea of battlefield tours is simply not the way the Russians, and before the Soviets, remembered their battles. Instead, they erected massive monuments and the like, using monumentalism to emphasize the scope of their losses. This way of remembering battles is quite evident in Berlin, by the way...

Cities were rebuilt for the sake of functionality, and a lack of monied tourists certainly didn't help foster a culture tailored towards amateur historians, willing to spend some coin to experience the actual sites of important events. Moreover, much history - to include those in Soviet military publications = was written not so much for the sake of accuracy but rather to spur on the next generation to great sacrifices which, for the most part thankfully, they were not asked to bear. None of this was, or is, really helpful in fostering a culture that caters to those who want to revisit old battlefields and/or strive for the empirical truth. I'll grant that this may have changed, and thus be curious, and interested if there are indeed serious tour promoters and guides, as one might find in Normandy or the Ardennes, in Russia.

Finally, the scope of these battlefields in terms of size is huge. Indeed, what we might call battles are more akin to campaigns, when one looks at the area covered compared to events in Western Europe... This certainly does not make it easy to focus visits or tour efforts....

[Jaegerhando]

I might very well be wrong, but the idea of battlefield tours is simply not the way the Russians, and before the Soviets, remembered their battles. Instead, they erected massive monuments and the like, using monumentalism to emphasize the scope of their losses. This way of remembering battles is quite evident in Berlin, by the way...

Cities were rebuilt for the sake of functionality, and a lack of monied tourists certainly didn't help foster a culture tailored towards amateur historians, willing to spend some coin to experience the actual sites of important events. Moreover, much history - to include those in Soviet military publications = was written not so much for the sake of accuracy but rather to spur on the next generation to great sacrifices which, for the most part thankfully, they were not asked to bear. None of this was, or is, really helpful in fostering a culture that caters to those who want to revisit old battlefields and/or strive for the empirical truth. I'll grant that this may have changed, and thus be curious, and interested if there are indeed serious tour promoters and guides, as one might find in Normandy or the Ardennes, in Russia.

Finally, the scope of these battlefields in terms of size is huge. Indeed, what we might call battles are more akin to campaigns, when one looks at the area covered compared to events in Western Europe... This certainly does not make it easy to focus visits or tour efforts....

Thanks. If it's unlikely that I'll be able to hire a Russian guide to tour the WW2 battlefields, does anyone know of any books which will help me tour the Kursk, Stalingrad, Viyazma, Voronezh battlefields?
Thanks

[Paul E]

Following on from the comments by Russ , do you speak Russian ?

If not you need to contact a guide who will take you around , arrange your transport , meals etc , i have been to Stalingrad many times but wouldn't consider the trip without Russian friends.

You really need to plan you trip very carefully before you go or you may see very little , search the internet and you will find Russian tours who will take you to some of the Battlefields but in 6 days you'll not get everywhere you want to go,

regards

Paul

[Jaegerhando]

Following on from the comments by Russ , do you speak Russian ?

If not you need to contact a guide who will take you around , arrange your transport , meals etc , i have been to Stalingrad many times but wouldn't consider the trip without Russian friends.

You really need to plan you trip very carefully before you go or you may see very little , search the internet and you will find Russian tours who will take you to some of the Battlefields but in 6 days you'll not get everywhere you want to go,

regards

Paul

Paul, unfortunately I don't speak Russian. If you could refer me to anyone who can guide me thru the Stalingrad area and Kursk, I'd be grateful.

[PaulW]

If you get stuck try Jim Dinsdale, he's been to Russia more times than I've had hot dinners!

http://normandybattlefieldguide.com/

[Jaegerhando]

If you get stuck try Jim Dinsdale, he's been to Russia more times than I've had hot dinners!

http://normandybattlefieldguide.com/

Thank you Paul.