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**WalterB** · 02-06-2010, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by birdie View Post

...Send a part of him home..........

I was torn on whether you should return the badge to them or not. The words above, however, convinced me that the badge should be returned; provided, however, that you receive assurances from the club that the badge will defintely be cherished and looked after.

**birdie** · 02-06-2010, 06:42 PM

I don't understand how..

I don't understand how anybody can be torn on this issue.....My gosh you could give up this relatively worthless trinket and turn it into a small treasure for his home town..What is there to be torn about?

Last year I found out a neighbor of mine was a WW II US Marine combat veteran. An unassuming guy who shared his story with me. Showed me his bullet wound and the sword his buddies brought back for him while he was in the hospital. In talking I discoverd he didn't have his divisions unit history. I had an original one and brought it over to him. We went through the book together and he pointed out familiar faces and stories. When we were done, he handed it back and I told him it was his book now.

Am I telling this story to be a hero? No, I just knew what the right thing to do was......I was not totally unselfish though, I got something out of it. I sure felt pretty good about doing it...and still do.

**Jean-Loup** · 02-08-2010, 09:44 AM

"Wthout hesitation, without a doubt,,send it back It is the right and honorable thing to do..I really can't understand why you would even have to wonder...It means so little to you and so much to them..Do something in memory of the young man who lost his life so many years ago...Send a part of him home.......... "

Everything you say is correct, exept your assumption that "it means so little to me".
Fair enaugh, it probably means less to me then to some people over in the village; but this kind of item demands a lot of work to find, and really is exactly the type of thing in my collection that means the MOST to me. It is a unique item with an amasing story behind it. I dont know if some of you guys realise how hard it is to find things like this on battlefields.

The exact words of the football club were: "could you please send us photos of the badge or even the original." So I am not sure how much they care to actualy have the original.

My plan is to send them some photos of Egypt and the original badge, and to tell them that if it means a lot to them to keep it, other wise to send it back after a few months. I will let them decide.

I should be sending my letter in the next days.

JL

**Jean-Loup** · 02-08-2010, 09:48 AM

By the way guys, I made a mistake, Richard was in 8th Kompanie, not 6th Kp of Pr Rgt 8.
I would be interested to find out more about the history of Pz Rgt 8 during 1942. If anybody has a unit history, or documentation, I would like to hear from you. Particularly concerning 17 July 1942.

JL

**Jonathan M** · 02-08-2010, 11:10 AM

Great thread that brings two of my greatest passions together, football and the hobby. Once again Jean Loup you provide and interesting thread and an example to all budding researchers out there.

Thanks
Jonathan

PS Just read the whole thread. My 50p's. I were you I'd keep the badge Jean loup as then you'd know it would be well stored and the memory of the soldier enshrined in your collection.

**seebee1** · 02-08-2010, 01:04 PM

Great story Jean-Loup, I am sure that whatever you decide to do it will be the right thing. Regards, Clive.

**WalterB** · 02-08-2010, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by birdie View Post

I don't understand how anybody can be torn on this issue.....My gosh you could give up this relatively worthless trinket and turn it into a small treasure for his home town..What is there to be torn about?

Last year I found out a neighbor of mine was a WW II US Marine combat veteran. An unassuming guy who shared his story with me. Showed me his bullet wound and the sword his buddies brought back for him while he was in the hospital. In talking I discoverd he didn't have his divisions unit history. I had an original one and brought it over to him. We went through the book together and he pointed out familiar faces and stories. When we were done, he handed it back and I told him it was his book now.

Am I telling this story to be a hero? No, I just knew what the right thing to do was......I was not totally unselfish though, I got something out of it. I sure felt pretty good about doing it...and still do.

Once you get off your little pulpit, I can clarify what I meant.

To some, what you call a trinket, may be just that. To others, like Jean-Loupe and I, they are not. As avid historians, they represent what may perhaps be the last remnants of a person who was involved in the greatest armed conflict of human history and convey more than the value of scrap metal. That is why I emphasized that if Jean-Loupe gets an assurance that this item will indeed be taken care of and cherished, then it should be returned. There are too many instances when well-intentioned collectors and historians have returned the medals of WWII veterans (Purple Hearts, Silver Stars, etc.) to distant and not so distant family members only to have such family members turn around and sell those medals (or worse, throw them away). In those particular cases, it would have been infintely better for the collectors/historians to have kept the medals and kept the memory of that veteran alive.

In short, what is of value to collectors may not be of the same value to other people, including relatives of the veterans. I know that Jean Loupe would not keep that trinket in a coin jar in his room or throw it away someday. I know that he would keep it in a special place in his room, along with a photo of the veteran and gaze it at it from time to time. By doing so, the memory of this veteran will continue to exist. If you think that the people in the hometown of the veteran will automatically treat this badge the same way, you need to open your eyes. Otherwise, you are simply being naive.

**History** · 02-08-2010, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by WalterB View Post

Once you get off your little pulpit, I can clarify what I meant.

To some, what you call a trinket, may be just that. To others, like Jean-Loupe and I, they are not. As avid historians, they represent what may perhaps be the last remnants of a person who was involved in the greatest armed conflict of human history and convey more than the value of scrap metal. That is why I emphasized that if Jean-Loupe gets an assurance that this item will indeed be taken care of and cherished, then it should be returned. There are too many instances when well-intentioned collectors and historians have returned the medals of WWII veterans (Purple Hearts, Silver Stars, etc.) to distant and not so distant family members only to have such family members turn around and sell those medals (or worse, throw them away). In those particular cases, it would have been infintely better for the collectors/historians to have kept the medals and kept the memory of that veteran alive.

In short, what is of value to collectors may not be of the same value to other people, including relatives of the veterans. I know that Jean Loupe would not keep that trinket in a coin jar in his room or throw it away someday. I know that he would keep it in a special place in his room, along with a photo of the veteran and gaze it at it from time to time. By doing so, the memory of this veteran will continue to exist. If you think that the people in the hometown of the veteran will automatically treat this badge the same way, you need to open your eyes. Otherwise, you are simply being naive.

I agree!

**BPA-Paul** · 02-08-2010, 04:31 PM

Great thread and research Jean, a little of your time paid off. Well done

**birdie** · 02-08-2010, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by WalterB View Post

I was torn on whether you should return the badge to them or not. The words above, however, convinced me that the badge should be returned; provided, however, that you receive assurances from the club that the badge will defintely be cherished and looked after.

Walter you agreed with me...."send a part of him home..", then attacked me for being on a soapbox? What the heck..don't apprecaite the personal attacks,,,Jean loup I really didn't mean it meant nothing to you, I mean't emotionally as compared to his hometown....Just what I would do, it's not mine to decide Thanks, birdie

**birdie** · 02-08-2010, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by WalterB View Post

Once you get off your little pulpit, I can clarify what I meant.

To some, what you call a trinket, may be just that. To others, like Jean-Loupe and I, they are not. As avid historians, they represent what may perhaps be the last remnants of a person who was involved in the greatest armed conflict of human history and convey more than the value of scrap metal. That is why I emphasized that if Jean-Loupe gets an assurance that this item will indeed be taken care of and cherished, then it should be returned. There are too many instances when well-intentioned collectors and historians have returned the medals of WWII veterans (Purple Hearts, Silver Stars, etc.) to distant and not so distant family members only to have such family members turn around and sell those medals (or worse, throw them away). In those particular cases, it would have been infintely better for the collectors/historians to have kept the medals and kept the memory of that veteran alive.

In short, what is of value to collectors may not be of the same value to other people, including relatives of the veterans. I know that Jean Loupe would not keep that trinket in a coin jar in his room or throw it away someday. I know that he would keep it in a special place in his room, along with a photo of the veteran and gaze it at it from time to time. By doing so, the memory of this veteran will continue to exist. If you think that the people in the hometown of the veteran will automatically treat this badge the same way, you need to open your eyes. Otherwise, you are simply being naive.

Who's on the pulpit-? You assume the medal will not be appreciated..I assume the best. You assume they don't care, I assume by their request they would love to have it.. so get off your pulpit and don't confuse being nice with being Naive....

**WalterB** · 02-08-2010, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by birdie View Post

Who's on the pulpit-? You assume the medal will not be appreciated..I assume the best. You assume they don't care, I assume by their request they would love to have it.. so get off your pulpit and don't confuse being nice with being Naive....

Then perhaps I have more experience in these matters than you. I have seen reality and, at times, it ain't pretty. Some people have no appreciation about a veteran's items or experiences and, yes, some may even be direct family members. You may assume blindly that they will go and do the right thing. For me personally, I will ask questions and try to make sure that they in fact will do the right thing. Perhaps it is a matter of trust. You trust blindly and I refuse to do so.

**birdie** · 02-09-2010, 01:48 AM

I'm talking about a soccer club pin

I'm not talking about a Knights Cross!!! We are taliking about a soccer club pin...what does he have to lose? So you do the right thing and send the pin home...they said they would like to have it...what are you afraid of? They are going to sell it for 4.00? I completely understand the historical value to Jean Loup...I am the same way, but I would send this pin in a heart beat even if it was an outside chance that someone would appreciate it as much as myself... Once again I would get more satisfaction out of sending it home, than hanging on to it.....The original thread said it did not have a happy ending..well Mr Non naive...what could be a happier ending than this small piece of history winding it's way home after 70 years?
Please tell me it isn't worth the risk....

**DaveNZ** · 02-09-2010, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post

The result of this little research project was very rewarding for me. The only problem is that the Football club would like its badge back, to put it in a display case. They sent me one of their modern badges in exchange. I am still pondering on what I should do...

JL

Wow what a great story. really puts a touch of humanity into these inanimate objects.

If it were me I would send the badge back without a doubt as they say they will put it in a display case. I would share with them the info about the man in question aswell and request it be added to the display with the badge.

after so many years in the desert it would be a great gesture to have a part of this mans life reunited with his home town.

but hey thats just me.

**DaveNZ** · 02-09-2010, 02:30 AM

forgot to say; im a big soccer fan myself and my experiance of football clubs is that they are quite fanatical about historical items such as these and will take good care of the badge.

football fans and TR collectors are both fanantics in their own way and here the two overlap

im sure it will be fine

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