York's famous Machinegun finds a home

[Brad Posey]

The portions of the book that contain what York says happened are from 7 to 9 October 1918 are found in four sections. Pages 215 – 135 and 270 – 278 are what is presented as being York’s war diary, the later apparently a mixture of war diary and postwar comments. On pages 236 and 237 appear to be York’s post war writings and on pages 260 – 269 what I will consider the most important York document; his 1919 US Army investigation statement.

I say that the 1919 statement is the most important because it is was given only a few moths after the fight when the events would have been fresh in York’s mind and before he was elevated to hero status and legend.

So, we will now look at the 1919 US Army statement and compare that later to what the book says York wrote in his diary. Here is what York says in the book as a prelude to presenting the US Army investigation records:

“The complete official record of the story has to include one more document. My own account as it was takened down at Divisional Headquarters a short time after the fight. I don't much care to publish the first part of it. But it is a part of the document and is an exact copy of the original, which is in the War Department in Washington, and I ain't got no right to leave any of it out. I have to publish it all or not, at all. So I have no choice but to put it all in. I might say that this is the first time that this document has ever been published.”

This is the US Army investigation introduction to York’s statement:

“The records of the 82nd Division reveal no more extraordinary act of individual gallantry and achievement than is accredited, after careful investigation, to Sergeant Alvin C. (No. 1,910,426) York, Co. G, 328th Infantry. York is a farmer, 31 years old, whose home is located at Pall Mall, Tenn., in the mountainous and northeastern corner of the state.

On the 8th of October, 1918, York was a corporal in G Company, 328th Infantry. This company was the left assault company of the 2nd Battalion, which jumped off from the crest of Hill 223 just north of Chatel Chehery and attacked due west, with its objective, the Decauville Railroad, two kilometers due west. The success of this assault had a far reaching effect in relieving the enemy pressure against American forces in the heart of the Argonne Forest. The local success achieved by this battalion was, in itself, of outstanding proportions. About 300 prisoners were taken and nearly 200 dead Germans left on the ground and material captured which included four 77’s a trench mortar battery, a complete signal outfit and 123 machine guns. The attack was driven through in spite of resistance of a very savage character and most destructive enemy machine gun and artillery fire. The battalion suffered enfilade fire from both flanks.

The part which Corporal York individually played in this attack is difficult to fully estimate. Practically unassisted, he captured 132 Germans (three of whom were officers), took about 35 machine guns and killed no less than 25 of the enemy, later found by others on the scene of York’s extraordinary exploit. York is well known in his section of Tennessee for his remarkable skill with both rifle and pistol.

The following story had been carefully checked in every possible detail from headquarters of this division and is entirely substantiated.

Although Sergeant York’s statement tends to underestimate the desperate odds which he overcame, it has been decided to forward to higher authority the account given in his own words:”

Here is York’s 1919 statement:

“Sergeant Harry M. Parsons was in command of a platoon of which my squad was a part. This platoon was the left support platoon of G Company, my squad forming the extreme left flank of the platoon. The valley was covered by machine gun fire from the right (pointing at the map), from the front and from the left front. Machine guns from the left front were causing a great deal of damage to our troops advancing across the valley. Sergeant Parsons was ordered to advance with his platoon and cover our left flank. As the fire was very hot in the valley, we decided to skirt the foot of the hill on our left and thereby gain some protection. We had advanced a little ways up to about here (pointing at the map) when we were held up by machine guns from our left front her (pointing at the map). Sergeant Parsons told Sergeant Bernard Early to take two squads and put these machine guns out of business, my squad, being the left squad, was one of those chosen.

We advanced in single file. The undergrowth and bushes here were so thick that we could see only a few yards ahead of us, but as we advanced, they became a little thinner. In order to avoid frontal fire from the machine guns, we turned our course slightly to the left, thereby working around on the right flank of the machine guns and somewhat to their rear, which caused us to miss these forward guns (pointing at the map). As we gained a point about here (pointing at the map and designating a point somewhat in the rear of the machine guns), we turned sharply to the right oblique and followed a little path which took us directly in rear of the machine guns. As we advanced we saw two Boche with Red Cross bands on their arms. We called to them to halt, but they did not stop and we opened fire on them. Sergeant Early was leading and I was third. As I said before, we were proceeding in single file. We immediately dashed down a path, along which the Boche were running, ad crossed this stream (pointing at the map). The Boche then turned to the right and ran in the direction from which they had come. When we reached the point where they turned, we stopped for half a second to form a skirmish line. I jumped about four paces away from a sergeant and we told the other men to scatter out because we thought there was going to be a battle and we did not want to be close together. As soon as we formed our skirmish line we burst through the bushes after the Boche.

This little stream of which I spoke runs through a gulch into the valley. On either side of the stream there was a little stretch of flat level ground, about twenty feet wide, which was covered with extremely thick bush. On the east bank of the stream was a hill having an exceedingly steep slope. The hill was somewhat semi-circular in shape and afforded excellent protection to anyone behind it. Along the top of the hill were the machine guns firing across the valley at our troops.

We burst through the undergrowth and were upon the Germans before we knew it, because the undergrowth was so thick that we could only see a few yards ahead of us. There was a little shack thrown together that seemed to be used as a sort of P.C. by the Germans. In front of this, in sort of a semi-circular mass, sat about seventy-five Boche, and by the side of the commanding officer and two other officers. The Boche seemed to be having some kind of conference.

When we burst in on the circle, some of the Boche jumped up and threw up their hands, shouting ‘Kamerad’. Then the others jumped up, and we began shooting. About two or three Germans were hit. None of our men fell.

Sergeant Early said: ‘Don’t shoot any more. They are going to give up anyhow’, and for a moment our fire ceased, except that one German continued to fire at me, and I shot him. In the meantime, the Boche upon the hill with the machine guns swung the left guns to the left oblique and opened fire on us. I was at this time just a few paces from the mass of Boche who were crowded around the P.C. At first burst of machine gun fire from the machine guns, all the Boche in this group hit the ground, lying flat in their stomachs. I, and a few other of our men, hit the ground at the same time. Those who did not take cover were either killed or wounded by the Boche machine-gun fire, the range being so close that the clothes were literally torn from their bodies. Sergeant Early and Corporal Cutting were wounded, and Corporal Savage was killed. In this first fire we had six killed and three wounded. By this time, those of my men who were left had gotten behind trees, and two men sniped at the Boche. They fired about half a clip each. But there wasn’t any tree for me, so I just sat in the mud and used my rifle, shooting at the Boche machine gunners. I am a pretty good shot with the rifle, also with the pistol, having used them practically all my life, and having had a great deal of practice. I shot my rifle until I did not have any more clips convenient and then I used my pistol.

The Boche machine gun fire was sweeping over the mass of Germans who were laying flat, and passing a few inches over my head, but I was so close to the mass of Germans who were lying down that the Boche machine gunners could not hit me without hitting their own men. There were about fifty Boche with the machine guns and under the command of a lieutenant. By this time, the remaining Boche guns had been turned around and were firing at us, and the lieutenant with eight or ten Germans armed with rifles rushed towards us. One threw a little grenade, about the size of a dollar and with a string that you pull like this when you want to explode it, at me, but missed me by a few feet, wounding however, one of his own men.

I just let the Boche come down the hill and then I poured it into them with my pistol, and I am, as I said before, a pretty good shot with the pistol. I shot the lieutenant, and when he was killed the machine gun fire ceased. During the fight, I kept hearing a pistol firing from the midst of the Boche who were lying on the ground. This was evidently the commanding officer shooting, as he was the only one in the crowd armed with a pistol, and all of his clips were empty when I examined them later.

When the machine guns ceased firing the commanding officer, who spoke English, got off the ground and walked over to me. He said: ‘English?’ I said: ‘No, not English’. He said: ‘What?’ I said: ‘American’ He said: ‘Good Lord’. Then he said: ‘If you won’t shoot any more, I will make them give up’, and I said: ‘well, all right, I will treat you like a man’, and he turned around and said something to his men in German, and they all threw off their belts and arms and the machine gunners threw down their arms and came down the hill.

I called to my men and one of them answered me from over here, another from over here and another here (they were pretty scattered), and when they come to me, I found that there were six left besides myself.

We searched the Boche and told then to line up in column of twos. The Boche commanding officer wanted to line up facing north and go down through the valley along the road which runs by the foot of the hill, but I knew if they got me there it would be as good as they wanted on account of the machine guns on the opposite slope, so I said, “No, I am going this way”, which was the way I had come, and which led through the group of machine guns placed here (pointing at the map), which seemed to be outpost guns. We had missed this machine gun nest as we advanced, because we had gone further to the left.

When we got the Boche lined up in a column of twos, I scattered my men along and at the rear of the column and told then to stay well to the rear and that I would lead the way. So I took the commanding officer and the other two officers and put one in front of me and one on each side of me, and we headed the column. I did that because I knew that if I were caught on the side of the column, the machine gunners would shoot me, but that if I kept in the column, they would have to shoot their officers before they could kill me. In this manner we advanced along a path and into the machine gun nest which is situated here (pointing at the map). The machine gunners, as I said before, could not kill me without killing their officers, and I was ready for them. One aimed a rifle at me from behind a tree, and, as I pointed my pistol at him, the commanding officer said: “If you won’t shoot any more, I will tell then to surrender”. He did and we had them in our column.

I then reported with the prisoners to the Battalion P.C. They were counted and there were 132 of them. I was there ordered to deliver the prisoners to Brigade Headquarters, which I did, and returned to my company the next morning.”

His statement is followed by these comments. It is unknown if this is part of the US Army report or Skeyhill’s words, but I will assume it was written by the US Army.

“It is further interesting to note that Sergeant York was a member of the Church of Christ in Christian Union. During the training days at Camp Gordon, Atlanta, Ga., he informed his company commander of his church affiliations, and was seriously troubled by the fact that one of the fundamental tenets of this faith is a pronounced opposition to war. This continued to cause York the most genuine perplexity, although he carefully refrained from accepting the military status of conscientious objector, declaring that he proposed to obey all orders while a member of the Army. His mental doubts were finally dissipated by his company commander in a long interview before embarking at Camp Upton, N. Y., at the end of which York stated that the purposes of American participation were of such a character that he felt himself able to take his part with a clear conscience.”

This is followed by an additional statement from York:

“Supplementary statement by Sergeant Alvin C. (1,910,426) York, Company G, 328th Infantry:

After the German captain had made the Germans remaining on the hill surrender and the firing stopped, Corporals Early and Cutting came up toward me. Corporal Cutting said: I'm hit and hit bad, and Corporal Early said: 'York, I am shot, and shot bad. What shall I do? I told him: You can come out in the rear of our column with the other boys. Private Donohue helped Corporal Early out to the edge of the woods, where they met a stretcher bearer from G Company with a stretcher, and Corporal Early was carried back to Chatel Cheherry, when the German prisoners carried him to the ambulance. Corporal Early was shot through the lower body. Corporal Cutting was shot three times in the left arm. Private Muzzi was shot in the shoulder. Corporal Cutting and Private Muzzi walked out themselves. No German wounded, as far as any of us know, came out with our prisoners. The wounded German lieutenant was brought out, I think, afterwards by German prisoners who went back for him. When we got back to the Battalion P. C., the prisoners were counted by Lieutenant Woods and Lieutenant Garner. Lieutenant Woods told us to take them to the Battalion P. C. and Colonel Wetherill told us to take them to Brigade Headquarters at Varennes. Another group of prisoners were added to those we had and I turned over at Varennes 208 prisoners to the Military Police, and a receipt was given to Corporal Clark, who had joined us after the fight was over. The prisoners which were captured and which were counted at the Battalion P. C. by Lieutenants Woods and Garner, I am told, amounted to 132. I counted them roughly by myself and thought there were about 146."

[Brad Posey]

York’s 1919 statement is well written and does not contain the mountain dialect we are so used to seeing throughout the rest of Skeyhill’s book. It also does not really sound like the “York” we are used to hearing throughout the book. Like the other statements given by the survivors it almost has a feel that it was written by someone else with the “(pointing at the map)” inserts where York was evidently showing on a map where certain things happened. These “(pointing at the map)” inserts are also seen in Buxton’s 1919 interview with Major Tillman. So, it looks like the statements are not really statements written by York or the other survivors, but rather summaries recorded by someone else. In WW I this would have been common practice and is evident in some of the survivor statements where the men signed with an “X” because they could not read or write. York later became a good speaker, but in 1919 he was not very literate and this statement must have been transcribed by someone else.

In a December 9th 1929 letter from Buxton to Merrithew (aka: CPL Cutting) Buxton describes interviews with the survivors being conducted by himself and other battalion officers. This indicates that the statements are actually interview summaries that the men signed afterwards.

In a February 21st 1930 letter Buxton reminds Merrithew that it was Sergeant Major Stafferman who was present at one of Buxton’s interviews with the survivors and it was Stafferman who typed the statements that were read to the entire group afterwards and that they (the survivors) stated that the statements fully covered the facts pertaining to their individual participation.

It is apparent that this was the manner in which statements were obtained from York and the other members of the patrol during the US Army investigation into what happened that day.

The point here is that the words we read in these statements may not actually be the words of the men themselves, but rather the dictations taken by someone like Sergeant Major Stafferman. This is simply the way things were done in 1919 when a large percentage of the men were illiterate or could barely read and write.

This is important to consider, particularly with York’s statement, because the 1919 interview statement is more than likely a summary of what he reported to Buxton in an interview conducted only a few moths after the fight. So, what we read in the “War Diary” portions of the Skeyhill book are evidently the 1928 recollections of York written with the help of Skeyhill.

[Brad Posey]

One thing I would like to interject at this time and they are these two US Army photos.

I watched the “Other Sixteen” TV broadcast again tonight and noticed that the relatives of the survivors said that York would intentionally avoid any situation or event where he would be present with other patrol members and I believe that one of them stated that York was not present at the 1929 ceremony that honored SGT Early with the DSC.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...49094422697685

Here are two 1929 US Army photos that show York at the 1929 US Army Relief Carnival where the 8 October 1918 event was reenacted (CPT Swindler’s document mentioned earlier). SGT Bernard Early was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross at this ceremony and York was present, which contradicts the accusations of the other group that York would intentionally avoid situations that put him at the same place as other patrol members who survived the fight.

[Brad Posey]

Here is SGT Bernard Early being awarded the DSC at the 1929 Army Relief Carnival. York was in the grandstand with MG Sumerall.

[Brad Posey]

Here are some of my observations about what York said in his 1919 US Army statement and what he is said to have written in his War Diary on October 8th and 9th, 1918.

1.) In his 1919 statement York says that when they first encountered the Germans at the P.C. or headquarters he says there were about 75 Germans next to little shack sitting together with their commanding officer and two other officers. He says that shots were exchanged and several Germans were hit. As the Germans started to surrender he says that one German continued to fire at him and York shot him.

In his diary he says that there were only 15 to 20 Germans sitting around a wooden shack. York says that they fired a couple shots just to “impress them”, but does not mention any of them being hit or that he had to shoot one German that continued to fire at him.

NOTE: Descrepancy: In his diary York says during the initial encounter with the Germans that there were between 15 to 20 Germans gathered around their commanding officer near a shack. In the 1919 statement York says there were about 75 Germans at this location. During this encounter York says in the 1919 statement that he had to shoot one of the Germans during this initial encounter, but does not mention it in the diary.

[Brad Posey]

2.) In his 1919 statement York says that while he was fighting the machineguns on the slope above him a German lieutenant and 8 or 10 soldiers rushed towards them. He says “rushed towards us” indicating that the German assault was not necessarily directed at him, but the group of Americans in general. He says that one of these Germans soldiers “rushing” towards them threw a small grenade at him, but it missed and wounded one of their own men.

In his diary York says that during the middle of the fighting with the machineguns on the slope a German officer and 5 men jumped out of a trench and charged him with fixed bayonets. He said that they were about 25 yards from him and since he had only half a clip in his rifle he pulled out his pistol and began shooting the Germans from rear to front until they were all down. Then he says he returned to his rifle and continued to shoot at the machine-gunners. York does not mention the grenade incident until all of the Germans on the slope surrendered and were coming down the hill to join the prisoners initially captured next to the shack.

NOTE: Descrepancy; In his diary York says that a German officer and 5 soldiers charged at him. In his 1919 statement York says that it was a German officer and 8 or 10 men that charged him. In his diary York says that the German who threw the grenade at him did so after the Germans on the slope had already surrendered. In the 1919 statement York says that one of the Germans charging “them” threw a grenade.

[Brad Posey]

3.) In his 1919 statement York says that as they were marching the column of prisoners back to the American lines they encountered more German machinegun nests. He said that one aimed a rifle at him, but the German officer told the man to surrender and he did.

In his diary York says that as they marched back towards the American line more machineguns were encountered and as they swung around to fire the German officer blew his whistle for them to surrender. Here York says that all of them surrendered except one, the German officer ordered the man twice to surrender, but he did not so York shot him.

NOTE: Definitely something wrong here. In the diary York says that he killed a man who refused to surrender, but in the 1919 statement he says that the man who aimed a rifle at him did surrender.

[Brad Posey]

4.) In his 1919 statement York says that when the machineguns on the slope opened fire on the patrol two of his men who were not hit by the initial bursts got behind trees and fired about half a clip each.

In the War Diary York says that when the fight with the machineguns on the slope was taking place he did not have a chance to look around for “the other boys”, that he did not know what they were doing and did not even know if the were still living. York goes on to say that later on they said that in the “thick of the fight” they did not fire a shot.

NOTE: Certainly a contradiction between what he says in his diary; that none of the other men fired a shot and he did not even know where they were. In his 1919 statement York says that two of his men were behind trees and fired half a clip each.

[Brad Posey]

5.) In the diary York says that on 9 October, 1918 when he returned to his unit he requested and was given permission from Captain Danforth to return to the scene of the fight and see if anyone was left behind. When he got to the scene he said that the Salvage Corps had already been through and cleaned the place up. He said that all of the Americans killed in the fight had been buried, the Germans too. He emphasizes that there were no bodies around.

NOTE: This is simply impossible. The American patrol members killed were not buried until several weeks later by Chaplain O’Farrely, so if York returned to the scene the day after the fight he would have seen the bodies of all of the men and the Germans still lying on the ground where they fell. Since Danforth does not mention York’s request to return to the scene and it seems York gad a good understanding of who from the patrol had been killed and wounded it is unlikely that he ever made the 9 October 1918 trip back to look for other survivors. His diary and 1919 statements indicate that at the time of the fight he knew who had been killed and who had been wounded. Also, it is highly unlikely that his company commander would have allowed such a venture when the company had already lost significant numbers and every man was needed for the movement north towards Cornay.

In his diary York does mention several things that he saw at the scene that perhaps give us a clue as to when he returned to the ravine:

a.) York says the Americans had been buried when he returned. In February 1919 York did return to the ravine as part of the US army investigation into his exploit, by then the American casualties had been buried with crosses marking the three burial sites.

b.) In the diary York also mentions a canteen with 18 bullet holes in it lying on the ground near where he stood. Number one; it is virtually impossible for a small object the size of a canteen to receive so many bullet strikes in such a short fight. Remember my previous post about the target practice artifacts that seem to be unique to this site only. A German canteen found very close to the suspected temporary burial location of Corporal Savage that has a number of .45 and 9mm bullet holes in it. Whether this canteen is the one York is referring to or not, there are certainly a few interesting similarities in what York describes and what was found during the archaeological investigation. Pattullo hints at the possibility of 1919 target practice in his 1919 Saturday Evening Post article mentioned earlier.

In summary it is almost certain that what York is describing as taking place on 9October 1918 was in reality the 1919 US Army investigation.

[Brad Posey]

6.) One of the biggest problems I have with all accounts of this fight is the number of German machineguns that were reportedly involved in this fight. The count can range from 20 to 30 machineguns, which would be either the MG08 or the MG08/15. The first problem is looking at it from the German perspective. The German accounts indicate that it would have impossible for that many machineguns to have been anywhere in the entire area west of Chatel Chéhéry that day; it is extremely unlikely that the Germans would have had such a large number of machineguns simply sitting in reserve on the back side of the hill opposite of a major American attack taking place a few hundred meters away on the other side of the hill.

Secondly, by all accounts, these 20 – 30 machineguns were 25 to 35 yards away from York. If they were all firing so heavily that the bushes were shot down around where York stood, as York claims, then why were dozens of Germans not killed since they were only a few feet away from York as he describes it? Even if God protected York, as he claims, there should have been scores of German KIAs from friendly fire at that range.

I have never fired an MG08 or 08/15, but I do have 20 years experience firing M60, M2, M240 and M249 machineguns on a regular basis and I cannot fathom a fight like this as described in the American historical records including Skeyhill’s book and the York War Diary portions found in it.

I say this not in the spirit of diminishing York’s actions or bravery, but merely want to point out that there is something wrong with the story as most of us understand it. Nowhere on the battlefield, to include the Army officer’s site and monument at the wrong location, has any archaeological evidence been found that would support this number of machineguns being involved in the fight.

6.) - IN SUMMAY: My opinion is that York did virtually single-handed engage a large number of German riflemen supported by several machineguns firing from the slope 30 yards or so above him. (A platoon of the 7th Bavarian Mineur Company) He did virtually single-handily kill a number of these Germans until the German officer (LT Vollmer) amongst the initial group of German prisoners saw that in order to save more German lives he offered York a surrender proposal that resulted in the Bavarians on the slope to cease firing and come down from the hill.

The archaeological evidence suggests that several hundred German 7.92mm rounds and a dozen or so 9mm rounds were fired during this firefight, but very limited use of machineguns. There were several machinegun system artifacts found, but no big piles of casings were found that would be required to confirm that number of machineguns. It is likely that more machineguns were captured than were actually engaged in the fight based on the number and location of the artifacts.

[Brad Posey]

I want to reiterate my position that I; in no way, shape or form, have any intent of diminishing what Sergeant York did on 8 October, 1918. Nor do I have any reason to believe that he is not deserving of the DSC or CMOH, which he was rightfully awarded for his actions on that day.

As you see there are a number of discrepancies in the recorded history of this event and what we are trying to do is arrive at the most accurate interpretation possible through the thorough and objective research conducted by Dr. Nolan and the other members of his team.

This research is based on the combined research of multiple individuals, who have each spent thousands of hours going through countless pages of pages of historical documentation, studying the findings from three campaigns of battlefield archaeology conducted on site between 2006 and 2009 and incorporating this research with Geographic Information Science (GIS) to arrive at the team’s conclusions that I am presenting here.

Others following this thread have commented that York’s CMOH citation might have been embellished. In regards to the number of machineguns York and the patrol encountered that morning I would agree.

Is it really citation embellishment or the way the award process works in the US army, past and present? I have received a number of awards during my 20 years service and I have had the wonderful opportunity to lead hundreds of soldiers during my career and write award recommendations for countless soldiers who served with me. Anyone who has had this great opportunity knows the frustration in getting approval for award recommendations. I am sure York’s commanders felt the same way. In saying that I suggest that the number of machineguns York was fighting was embellished, but in my opinion that does not take anything away from what he did that day.

Had it not been for York’s sharpshooting skills, coolness under fire, survival instincts and his ability to take command of the patrol and make the right decisions in order to take command of the patrol and march the column of prisoners along the safest route back to the American lines I do not think any of the 17 man patrol would have made it out alive or without being captured.

In other words; if York was not a member of this patrol and the other NCOs like Sergeant Early had been severely wounded, the patrol would not have made it out of there. No one knows what would have happened if the circumstances were any different, but the fact remains that York, from all accounts, virtually singlehandedly, saved this patrol and is responsible for the survivors safe return to American lines in addition to the capture of 132 German soldiers.

Whether he battled 30 machineguns or a platoon of riflemen accompanied by several machineguns should not be considered an important discrepancy when considering that had he not have acted as he did the outcome would have been very grim for the American patrol and 132+ Germans would have still been in the fight.

Apparently York’s chain of command felt differently and thus we have the story that I am now attempting to sort out into a reasonable, accurate and objective understanding of what really happened that morning based on ALL of the evidence documenting this epic exploit.

[tmca05]

Second 08/15 from York's battle may still be around

Well I’m going to throw a wrench into the “sole” surviving machine gun from Sgt. York’s Battle.

Mr. Hume Parks of Nashville, TN author of Field Artillery Weapons of the Civil War has been an avoid collector of Machine guns since before WW2. Mr. Parks, now 97 had a 08/15 registered with the ATF that is said to have come from the same battle. Story as I best remember was that it was sent back to Tennessee as a war trophy from the battle, it sat in the court house of Fentress County, TN until WW2 were someone had the bright idea to put it in a scarp drive and send it back to the Germans as a bullet. One of Hume’s friends rescued it from the scrap drive, registered it in 1968 and in 1983, Hume obtained it from him. The water jacket still has a bullet or shrapnel hole in it from the battle.

[Brad Posey]

This makes the second MG that York captured turning up somewhere.

I have no doubt that after the war a certain number of German machineguns were taken out of the piles of captured weapons from the 82nd Division sector in the Argonne and labeled as MGs that York captured. But, in reality, are they?

Salvage units came through shortly after the battle and collected up all of these weapons and they were put together at collection areas with thousands of other captured weapons and material. I do not think that when the Salvage units came through they had even heard of Sergeant York. Certainly Chaplain O’Farrely had not heard of York in late October 1918 when he was at the scene and buried the six members patrol members killed.

From all of my research I cannot find anything that would indicate that York’s deed was made famous any earlier than February 1919 when York was taken back to the scene during the US Army CMOH investigation. Prior to that York was just one of many DSC awardees and there would have been no reason for anyone to collect “artifacts” related to that particular event. It could be that some guns were overlooked and found in 1919, but I think that would have been worthy of mention in at least one of the written accounts about that event. York does mention a shot up canteen and an old “shell” helmet, but nothing about MGs, which would have been very worthy of mention had one or two turned up, but I do believe these would have ended up in the hands of on of the 82nd Division senior officers present and not a Lieutenant.

But since these two weapons have a pedigree as guns that York captured I cannot make a claim that they are not based on my research so far, only that I suspect they are not the actual weapons York captured.

[tmca05]

Thanks Brad

Brad,

I agree with you 100% about the authenticity of any souvenir brought back from this battle, or other battles for that fact. At the time, this was just another “event” in the front lines, nothing probably stood out much for history’s sake, until the MOH was awarded. By the time it actually became a famous event, the battlefield would have been cleaned up of anything of any significance such as a 08/15 in working order. The likelihood of any solider picking up and carrying away a 08/15 would be very tough, after all the war was not over and there were still lots of fighting to do. I can see an 08/15 coming home in 1919, but this was months past the famous battle and could have come from anyplace, “or pile”. Only bullet or cartridge case forensics, tied to the weapon that fired them could prove that those 08/15’s were actually there. This was done recently on the Custer battlefield as you may well know and proved a few suspected guns. In any case, if you find a pile of spent .8mm brass that you suspect came from a machine gun firing position during York’s battle, I’ll be glad to hook you up with the current owner of Mr. Park’s gun and maybe you can do a forensic test. This assumes that the barrel and firing pin/lock have never been changed out as well.

I’ve collected military relics for over 35 years; many of these items came directly from the veterans themselves. Every Japanese flag came from a Kamikaze pilot, every Luger from a dead SS officer, every veteran served directly under Patton. We all have heard the stories and we all know that they get embellished a bit over time. As these stories are passed down to relatives, they get even greater or tied more to fame and history. It’s a fact of life and what the heck; maybe it’s not so bad. It still preserves history in a different form and helps keeps it alive. If it became boring, maybe you and I would never had even heard about Sgt. York, or what he did for all of us. Yes we need to find the truth, but without a little embellishment at the time, the whole story may have died right there on the battle field along with all those fallen soldiers.

Keep up your good work, it’s fascinating, and thanks again for sharing it with all of us.

[Brad Posey]

Very well said and I appreciate you sharing this MG story. Who knows how many more are out there. There is also the story of York’s pistol turning up somewhere, but it is not York’s pistol.

I am still sorting out the survivor statement discussion and hopefully will be ready to post something new soon.