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    Germany looks to Russia for clues on WWII massacre

    Germany looks to Russia for clues on WWII massacre
    Yet many have no desire to dredge up the past.
    Treuenbrietzen -- For over 50 years, the inhabitants of this small eastern German town kept quiet about a World War II massacre. And many today still have no wish to revisit the past.

    The long-forgotten slaughter of about 1,000 German civilians occurred after Russian Red Army soldiers occupied the town, 40 kilometers (25 miles) southwest of Berlin, in April 1945, in the final days of the war.

    Under East German communist rule, it would have been unwise to mention the matter.

    But in the wake of German reunification, a local historian has sought to unravel the truth behind the killings, and the prosecutor's office has now been pressed to investigate the case.

    A spokesman for the Potsdam prosecutor said an official request for information about the massacre was forwarded to Russian authorities in November.

    "It's our last chance to find those responsible,” said Christoph Lange. “We've already gone through all the relevant German documents. Maybe something can be found in Russian military archives, possibly something relating to orders, or reports or photographs."

    But he acknowledged it was unlikely the truth would ever be known.


    The town's mayor, Michael Knape, is less than happy about charges now brought against "persons unknown" in a bid to force Russian authorities to speak out about the massacre.

    "All we wanted was reconciliation,” he said. “It was never our purpose to go after the Russians."

    Charges were brought by a small association, the Forum zur Aufklaerung und Erneuerung (Forum for Resolution and Renewal), which seeks to bring to light some of the darker secrets of the former East Germany's communist past.

    "Now that charges have been brought, the whole question of guilt has been resurrected," says Knape, who acknowledges that "the townspeople are very reluctant" to discuss what remains a taboo subject.

    Even his grandmother, who lived through the events, "refused to discuss it," the mayor said.

    Russian troops occupied Treuenbrietzen on Saturday, April 21, 1945.
    According to witnesses, the massacre took place two days later, possibly because a Soviet officer had been shot dead in the town.

    Men were gathered together, taken to nearby woods, and shot. A number of women were also raped and killed.

    Ucksche said nearly every family in the town lost relatives.

    "The Russians had ordered the town evacuated,” he said. “Many of those who stayed paid with their lives."

    When he was growing up in East Germany, there was never any mention of the killings. The official word was that the Germans had been killed in US air raids or had died of disease.

    "We were told 88 were killed,” Ucksche said. “But in fact there were more than 1,000."

    There were many massacres at the time.

    On the very same day of the killings in Treuenbrietzen, another bloodbath took place just five kilometers (three miles) up the road, near the village of Nichel.

    In this instance it was retreating German soldiers who shot 127 Italian forced laborers who had just escaped from a munitions factory in Treuenbrietzen.

    Audrey Kauffmann/AFP/Expatica

    Most of the dead are buried in six large rectangular pits in the town and a nearby memorial now preserves their names.

    "The bodies were buried in layers, 12 atop one another,” according to local historian Wolfgang Ucksche. “Those who helped bury them kept a secret tally but gave up counting after 721."

    On the 50th anniversary of the end of the war, Ucksche, a former petrol station attendant who now runs the town museum, asked citizens to write down what they remembered of the times.

    #2
    WWII mass grave of German civilians found in Poland



    08/01/2009
    The discovery helps solve the mystery of what happened to the civilians who did not evacuate as the Soviet Red Army were approaching.
    Warsaw -- The remains of 1,800 2,000 German civilians who perished in 1945 have been exhumed from a mass grave in Malbork in northern Poland.

    "Since it was discovered in October, we have exhumed the remains of 1,800 people who we are almost certain were Malbork residents," municipal official Piotr Szwedowski told AFP on Wednesday.

    Once part of the German region of East Prussia and known as Marienburg, Malbork was in the territory handed over to Poland after World War II.

    Men, women and children of all ages were found in the grave, Szwedowski said. "Some of the victims must have been shot dead,” he added. “One skull in 10 bears bullet holes."

    Investigators believe the grave was dug in the spring of 1945, as the Soviet Red Army advanced from the east.

    It was discovered by accident in October last year on the construction site of a luxury hotel in the heart of Malbork.

    It lies around 300 meters from the medieval castle of the Order of Teutonic Knights, which is one of Poland's most popular tourist attractions.

    "The bodies were strewn about in a chaotic fashion in a vast crater created by a shell explosion," Szwedowski said.

    State prosecutors in Malbork have opened an investigation.

    "The exhumation work is not complete, but due to freezing temperatures we have had to suspend it for the time being," prosecutor Waldemar Zduniak told AFP.

    Polish press reports suggest the Red Army may have killed some of the victims, while others perished in aerial bombardments, from starvation or from hypothermia.

    "It will be a difficult investigation," Szwedowski said. "All of the people were buried naked, without shoes or any personal effects. Metal detectors found no traces during the exhumation work conducted so far, not even dental work."

    Some 30,000 people lived in the German-era city. In the spring of 1945, the city was the site of savage battles between the advancing Red Army and retreating Nazi German forces.

    As the Red Army was approaching, Malbork residents, mostly ethnic Germans, were ordered to evacuate deeper into the Third Reich. The fate of 1,800 of the 3,800 people known to have stayed behind has long remained a mystery.

    AFP/Expatica

    Comment


      #3
      If you want some good reading on the topic, read "Last Laurels" or maybe it is "Lost Laurels" about the last days of the war in the east. I have it packed away right now or I would give you the author's name.

      Comment


        #4
        I don't know why the present German regime is so shy about these issues. I guess it's all a part of the Wiedergutmachung and paranoia that is rampant there. I just finished translating my grandfather's account of his capture after the defense of Koenigsberg, and his experiences immediately after the surrender of the city and later in the death camps he was sent to, including the infamous Lager Stablack. It is apparent that thousands of civilians were killed during these actions. And of course Malbork was called Marienburg until 1945, when it and West Prussia were "given" by the Soviets to Poland, naturally after it had been ethnically cleansed of Germans.

        Comment


          #5
          I have read a couple of books on the topic and from the way it was described, the Russians swarmed over German like locusts and butchered people, raped women, and looted everything they could get their hands on.
          I am not saying that the Germans acted like altar boys while invading Russia but it appears that the Russians paid them back with a vengence.

          Comment


            #6
            Any accounts of what happened to the Russians who turned and fought for the Germans at war's end? I know they were turned over but not where they ended up or how long they lived.


            W.

            Comment


              #7
              It's about time this has come to the light. War crimes existed on all sides and justice should be had for those murdered civilians whose only crime may have been that they were German. It is nice to see that true history can now be researched and revealed.

              Comment


                #8
                Very interesting, I hope that they can get some form of justice for what happenned to these innocent people. They may never get the names of these killers but perhaps, just perhaps a public apology to the victims and their families. It has obviously affected thes people up to this day.

                -Shawn

                Comment


                  #9
                  Some Similar topics, mostly dealing with aftermath in Czechoslovakia.

                  http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scr...rno/sgi00.html




                  http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scr...ok/desg00.html

                  Not light reading at all.

                  Joe

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by PlaceOfBayonets View Post
                    Any accounts of what happened to the Russians who turned and fought for the Germans at war's end? I know they were turned over but not where they ended up or how long they lived.


                    W.
                    Many of the Russians and other Soviet citizens and soldiers that had been taken to the West were sent to labor camps when they were repatriated to the USSR. Others were executed. The 'Vlassov's army' and other eastern volunteer troops were almost all killed when they were sent back to the East. The USSR demanded all Eastern people to be returned to them and the Western Allies were pretty good about returning them. Surprisingly enough, the British managed to get many of the Ukrainian SS men to Canada. The theory is that they hoped to use them to support the Ukrainian nationalists and for spy work in the post-war Soviet Union.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by DennyB View Post
                      I have read a couple of books on the topic and from the way it was described, the Russians swarmed over German like locusts and butchered people, raped women, and looted everything they could get their hands on.
                      I am not saying that the Germans acted like altar boys while invading Russia but it appears that the Russians paid them back with a vengence.
                      Actually Russian raped polish women as well, just ask older polish people, they were even more afraid of the russian animals then wehrmacht...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by PlaceOfBayonets View Post
                        Any accounts of what happened to the Russians who turned and fought for the Germans at war's end? I know they were turned over but not where they ended up or how long they lived.


                        W.
                        I spoke to a fellow who's father was a Russian soldier who surrendered and then fought for the German army in Itlay where he was again captured by the allies. He was able to stay in England by not telling the truth of his identity. The Allies gave the Russians almost anything they wanted and that included these men, My guess is most were killed when they returned home.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by DennyB View Post
                          If you want some good reading on the topic, read "Last Laurels" or maybe it is "Lost Laurels" about the last days of the war in the east. I have it packed away right now or I would give you the author's name.
                          If it is the one about about the battles in Upper Silesia in 1945 it is by Georg Gunter (ISBN: 1874622655 // 978-1874622659).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My uncle was beaten to death in the street in Czechoslovakia in May, 1945 by local partisans. The Czechs were particularly cruel after war's end, and massacred thousands of women and children. The most infamous event was at Aussig on the Elbe, where the population was lined up on the bridge and machine gunned. I have spoken with a survivor of this action. When Benes returned from exile in London in 1945 the locals welcomed him by having the bodies of murdered Germans hanging from every lamppost on the main street in Prague.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I

                              Rational !

                              After some thought towards the varying rational of a certain section of the WAF members, there seems to be a quite common basis to the many divided opinions.

                              Correct me if I’m wrong, but would I be correct in assuming that a high percentage of the members were first generation descent of World War Two ?.

                              If this being the case, , most certainly these members would have heard first hand accounts of personal perspectives from within their own family.
                              Clearly from this, the family point of view would be firmly expressed and rationalised to the children come what may of the family circumstance and placement during World War Two.

                              Obviously, this creates a bias leaning toward family origin.

                              Opposing views !

                              As an example …

                              It is only recently, that I noticed VeeTwin Vince’s family story has opened up a little, and thus his sentiments are now much clearer.
                              His Uncle being brutally beaten to death by the Czech’s, his father’s struggle in the defence of Konigsburg, plus the fiasco of land transference (East Prussia) at the end of WW2.
                              All three of these subjects affected his family directly.

                              On the other side of the fence, but surprisingly very similar ..
                              My paternal family were deported to Siberia by the Russians, where the parents (my grandparents) perished, along with three of their siblings.
                              The district they came from was absorbed by the Russians at the end of WW2, destroying everything of my family’s past.
                              My grandfather fought for the Austrians in WW1, perished at the hands of the Russians in WW2.
                              My 2nd cousin was killed on 7th June 1944 whilst serving with the British 6th Airborne Division During the D-Day operations.
                              A namesake was lost on U614 in 1943 serving with the Kreigsmarine.

                              Divides.
                              These examples of family divides are probably more common than we realise, and explain justifiable opposing views.

                              Divides than do not have a root, … hero worship, sycophantism etc are the disturbing ones.

                              I have no problem with militaria collections of any ilk, … I do though draw the line where the collecting is geared up to support a political undercurrent and misguided belief !

                              Gary J.

                              I will add this note ....
                              I have written this reply without any prompting from the moderators etc ...
                              It is not an apology .. neither an excuse ... just my thoughts ..
                              Last edited by Gary Jucha; 04-24-2009, 12:52 PM.

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