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**DennyB** · 03-12-2009, 12:12 PM

With absolutely no disrespect to the WW2 veteran, I seriously think that he was blowing smoke, maybe to entertain a young man wanting an interesting story. Too many things simply do not add up. Strafing ground troops was not a role of this aircraft, it wasn't designed for it. It flew at 500mph and had 4 -30mm cannon on it for attacking bombers. There is only one documented account of a Soviet fighter shooting one down and there are few accounts of other Allies shooting them down because of their speed. American P-51 Mustangs had to be rigged up to inject nitrous oxide or some chemical into it's fuel system to give it a boost to get close to a ME262.
I suppose it is possible to hit one with an M-1 Garand but hitting a target moving at 500mph is difficult to say the least, look at the rural police chases where they try to shoot out a tire of a pick-up truck going 50mph down a gravel road and totally miss it. The story of a dead pilot landing the craft seems unlikely also where several crashed and burned on landing with completely coherant pilots operating them, they were volatile when loaded with fuel.
The story simply seems way too far fetched to me. Too many peculiar events happening at once.
Denny

**MikeP** · 03-12-2009, 12:50 PM

I was going to keep quiet, but will pile on with the others.
Your friend was pulling your leg.

That plane was destroyed in-place on the ground-no doubt about it.
A .30 cal could have hit a vital spot, these were fragile aircraft.
Didn't happen here, though.
The old fella might even have come to believe his own tale over the years.

You chose to put it in the open and got some observations you don't like.

Live with it.
Remember him as your friend and let it go.

**geopop71** · 03-12-2009, 03:03 PM

262

Another observation, if the jet was strafing even at a slower speed, and it was indeed hit with ground fire, how far would it have gone before crashing? Appar
ently not very far since the Vet got a pic of him standing there as if it had circled and landed nearby. But we will never know for sure.
I remember when I was a kid of 13 when my Uncle was mysteriosly discharged from the Army at the height of the war, when they kept any warm body. He was at pearl harbor on Dec 7th, saved a nurse from an enemy strafing plane by pushing her to the floor, with his hand's outstreached, he demonstrated how the bullet's went right between all five of his finger's!

Just after that, he defused a Japanese bomb that fell in a prison!

Then he told of him driving a General in a jeep down a Hawiian mountain, came to a curve that had to be backed up several times to negotiate
the turn, he made it in one turn, sez he was sure the wheel s were over the edge of the steep ravine.

Being a kid, and loving vet's and military men, I was very impressed, untill my Dad made the motion of shoveling!!

After the war he told us he wanted to learn how to drive!!!!!!!

geopop

**tropenmilitaria** · 03-12-2009, 04:36 PM

It appears that the consensus is that while the story as told could have happened, it most likely didn't and after reading all the scenarios I concur. While I would have liked it to be true it in no way diminishes Mr. Adcock's service and I am happy to have known him. Thanks for all the informative opinions

**WalterB** · 03-12-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by tropenmilitaria View Post

It appears that the consensus is that while the story as told could have happened, it most likely didn't and after reading all the scenarios I concur. While I would have liked it to be true it in no way diminishes Mr. Adcock's service and I am happy to have known him. Thanks for all the informative opinions

Just to be devil's advocate, the vet could have been telling the truth about shooting down an Me262, and the picture of the Me262 in the album could be that of another plane which was intentionally disabled on the ground. With the passage of time, he could have easily confused which Me262 was actually in the picture. Who knows? Unfortunately we may never.

I had a conversation with an fascinating vet about 2 months ago who was a P47 pilot. He told me that after D-Day they moved to an airfield in Normandy (it had some sort of code designation like L-147 or something like that). He told me he strafed various German columns which were retreating the Falaise Gap. During one particular incident, he was strafing a German column and as he was pulling up he banked at an angle to take a look at the effect of his work and that as he did that, he saw a German take aim and shoot at him with a rifle. Immediately after the German shot at him, he felt an impact right behind him. He didn't think much about it until he told his chief mechanic once he landed at his base. The chief mechanic came back some time later with a rifle slug which had embedded in the seat directly behind him! The vet kept that 7.88mm slug and he has it to this day (he even showed it to me)! He also saved some flak shrapnel that embedded on his aircraft. He is a fascinating guy and absolutely loves the P47. He mentioned it could take a beating and keep on flying. He also said that he will never forget the sight of the strings of tracers rise up to meet him as he made certain strafing passes.

**paddywhack** · 03-12-2009, 05:14 PM

as for the picture if it has just crashed shouldn't the earth be disturbed around it? i still think as has been said IF a 262 was shot down by troops you can bet your ass they would have all round the world!!!!!

**MH184** · 03-12-2009, 11:26 PM

The first ever jet aircraft to be shot-down by 'ground fire' was a Me 262A in November 1944 (I think the 15th) by the RAF Regiment.

I'm sure there is more info on the net, but I do also have a book containing the details. I read it before Christmas in fact.

And, as far as I'm aware it was the only enemy jet to be shot down during the war from ground fire.

**Simon O.** · 03-13-2009, 03:51 AM

Marcus, by ground fire do you mean proper AA rather than small arms?

**MH184** · 03-13-2009, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Simon Orchard View Post

Marcus, by ground fire do you mean proper AA rather than small arms?

Yes, AA mate.

**History** · 03-13-2009, 08:18 AM

I shot a Ground Hog with a 243 rifle when I was 14 years old at about 300 yards. I went to inspect it and could not find any blood or exit wound. I could feel that the ribs were broken and the animal was completley broken up inside. I finaly found the entry hole in it's hip. After looking for several minutes I found the cooper jacket in the animals mouth. Strange things happen and stories get twisted , we werent there and will never know for sure . Only guess at odds!

**peleliuexplorer** · 03-13-2009, 10:59 AM

Just did a quick search under the National Archives and Records Administration website and found the name Roland Adcock as KIA but the serial# is different from the one you supplied so it's obviously the wrong guy. You can easily get his record from that branch with a little effort. Just google the address.

Good luck, Eric

**MH184** · 03-13-2009, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Simon Orchard View Post

Marcus, by ground fire do you mean proper AA rather than small arms?

Here you go matey:

........'Given the virtual elimination of the Luftwaffe from the skies, it was both irritaing and inconvenient to discover that the Germans could operate their new jet fighter/bomber, the Me262, with impunity, as its performance outclassed the RAF's conventional piston-engined fighters.

However, on 26 November 1944 an overconfident Me262 pilot attacked Helmond once too often, and was promptly shot down by 2875 LAA Squadron's B.11 gun detachment (40mm Bofors). Ths was the first occasion on which a jet aircraft was shot down by ground fire, but by no means the last.

On 17 and 18 December a total of eighteen Me262's attacked the airfiield at intervals during the day and the guns from 2873 and 2875 Squadrons damaged several of the attackers, causing at least two of them to crash within a few miles of the airfield.

In February 1945 Sergeant Pollards B.6 gun detachment of 2809 LAA Squadron shot down another Me262 over the airfield at Vokel. The final appearance of the Me262s over Vokel was in April 1945, when yet another fell to 28
09 Squadron's guns.'

A bit more info:

The 'first' jet was an Me262A-2a Sturmvogel of 111/KG51 based at Hopsten/Rheine near Osnabruck.

The RAF forward airfield of Helmond is near Eindhoven. And, forced to consider other ways of attacking the airfields the Germans hence resorted to using V1 flying bombs for a duration, whose launch sites were now too far away from England.

They consequently used 262s again as in Operation Bodenplatte...........etc

There is a picture in the book of the very first jet shot down, also. It's a wreck of a plane!!!

The main text is taken from the book, The RAF Regiment at War 1942 - 1946, by Kingsley M. Oliver; published by Pen & Sword.

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US Army Veteran shoots down ME262 with M1 Garand...any more info out there?

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