This coming March 13 marks 2 years since my friend Roland Adcock passed away. A former US Army veteran, he would have been 92 and without a doubt was one of the most interesting people I have ever met. He was gracious enough to share some of his war stories and tell me about each photograph in his WWII photo album. He came ashore in France as a forward observer a couple of weeks after D-Day. He saw alot of action and had a selection of photos that showed a farmhouse in France that his squad occcuped that was full of bullet holes and mortar craters after being assaulted all night by German forces. One story that stuck out was when he and more than 30 men were crossing an open field in Germany when a ME 262 swooped down at almost tree top level and strafed them. Roland said that about 6 soldiers were killed on the first pass. When the jet came in for a second run all of the remaining soldiers opened up with their hand held rifles and brought the plane down in the field. The German pilot was dead in the cockpit and the plane landed largely intact. Roland showed me 2 photos in his album with him posing next to the jet. I took a couple of digital photos of the pics but SADLY as you can see in the attached below photo my camera setting was off and it came out blurry. I have tried to find out more information about whether or not there is any recorded history of a ME 262 being shot down by ground fire but have come up empty. Before I could research the story any further by talking to Mr. Adcock or take clearer photos of the shot down jet he had passed away. If anyone has any additional information of this incident and would be willing to share it I would be most appreciative. To make matters worse I cannot recall Mr. Adcock's unit. I do know that he helped secure Dachau concentration camp so that might narrow down at least the division. Regardless, Mr. Adock was a great man and I will always cherish his recounting of his wartime experiences, most of which he confessed he never shared with anyone else since he felt these were private experiences that one shouldn't talk about and was only opening up since he knew his days were coming to a close.
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Mr. Adcock in late 2006 holding up his photo album. You can see the photo of the shot down ME262 on the right page. -
Blurry closeup of Mr. Adcock posing next to the jet.Comment
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Considering the landing gear of the Me 262 is out, and there seems to be some kind of obstacle right behind its wing, I have huge doubts about it having crash landed with a dead pilot abord!
In other words, with no disrespect intended, I think Mr Adcock may have been telling you an "enhenced" version of his war time memorries.
JLComment
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Hi JL,Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post
I realize that older veterans sometimes bend the truth a little but he told me the same story on 2 different occasions when I stopped by to see how he was doing. He did say that he could clearly see the pilot on the initial approach so perhaps the jet was coming down for a landing in the field as I have read the jets were easily picked off by US fighter planes that waited around the landing strips. I would think that at 500mph at normal me262 airspeed one would have trouble seeing the pilot? He also had a photo of a railway tunnel that he said they found German jets inside and I have read that the Germans had to find underground areas to build and sometimes store the me262s. I know it is a longshort but being that it is estimated that fewer than 300 me262s saw combat that perhaps there is a record of this incident somewhere? Too bad the jet's work number could not be seen.Comment
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I too would be highly suspicious. You can possibly confirm this action by going to the National Archives in College Park, MD and obtaining a copy of the official action report, war diary or unit journal for the unit the vet served during the war. Surely something as substantial as shooting down a Me262 by ground fire would be recorded. Think your first order of business is confirming the vet's unit or getting another eyewitnesse's story. May be more to the story.
-EricComment
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Downed ME-262.
I believe Mr. Adcock is standing next to an ME-262 that was purposely sabotaged by German forces to prevent a serviceable aircraft from being captured by the allies. Notice the intakes of the engines and their positions in relation the ground. They are tilted. Also note the position of the empennage (tail section) adjacent and to the rear of the aircraft. This hardly is consistent for an aircraft brought down by rifle fire. The forward portion of the plane is also at an acute angle, and as noted; with the nose landing gear in the locked position.
Since one of the ME-262 fuel tanks was located in front of the cockpit, the separated/broken nose section should show evidence of fire damage, if this particular aircraft was in use at the time of the incident.
If indeed this aircraft was brought down by gun fire of any type why has it suffered what appears (in this picture) significant, yet lack of apparent damage, in sectional separation of main components of the aircraft?
Charles BetzLast edited by C. Betz; 03-11-2009, 11:43 AM.Comment
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With a clear scan of the photo I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the LW experts could narrow down which plane or to which unit the plane belonged. I have to agree with the others, it looks like it's been destroyed in place and the soldier in the photo isn't in combat gear either.Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.Comment
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There are several facts that simply don't add up in this story. I suppose anything is possible but the ME262 was a high altitude fighter, it would seem that it would be too fast to use to scrafe ground troops. Weren't they equipped with canon and not machine guns? I would have thought that a soldier shooting down a ME262 with an M-1 Garand would have been quite newsworthy.
The 262 was vulnerable during take-off and landing, he may have shot at one landing, I don't know, the story doesn't make good sense but then not much does in war.Comment
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262 shoot down
Personally,I think this story was home made, I believe one of our pilot's flying a prop P51 shot down a 262 and he made headlines and is still recognized to this day! Can you imagine if some GI did such a feat, or even half a dozen GI's
History channel would have run this story many times. Not to mention the home town papers at the time. What a propaganda windfall that would have been!
geopopComment
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Further....for six soldiers killed in one pass is a phenominal kill...just hard to believe. Guess it's possible. Unit rosters would confirm. That plane looks as though it was put out of action by straffing or, as previously noted, sabotaged but I'm no expert.
-EricComment
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C Betz brings up some resaonable points but I dont think it is ruled out that small arms fire could have hit the right place and brought down the airplane. C Betz input is highly informative and does highly suggest the story is "blurred by time" however couldnt the tilt of the engines intakes and the other characteristics, along with Mr Orchards comment that he is not in combat gear be explained by the fact that these pictures were not at the time but taken shortly afterwards when a front line unit had time to take pictures? IE he came back shortly afterwards but rear echlons had messed with the plane? I think we need to ask are there any characteristics that DO point to an emergency landing?
Perhaps it was not small arms but "mechanical" failure that brought down the aircraft on the official record, ie no press. Many reports from the battle of Mortain (my particular battle of expertise) show that credit for the same kills (tanks) were claimed by artillery, TD Battalions and the Air Force. Fog of war is thick. Maybe he took a shot at it it but it was not a bullet but a fuse that took her down.
I only bring this up because that is a hell of a story, and I know that Mr Orchard is such a star researcher, and that this is so unique, it should be throughouly investigated.Comment
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I appreciate the info as I think the story is worthy of research also. I got on the online govt. records and found his army serial number to be 46849495 but I don't know how one links this to the specific unit he served in. Does anyone know how to find out? I will state that Mr. Adcock was very lucid when we would meet and could recall the names of soldiers and specific places the photos were taken without having to think twice on almost all of the photos.Last edited by tropenmilitaria; 03-11-2009, 10:40 PM.Comment
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Individual's Records
If you want to find out his military service, go to the VA's website and down load the request for service records. You need his full name, already have his service number, might possibly need his date of birth, date of death, and approximate dates of service time. I would venture to say, that the full name, branch of service, and service number will enable you accomplish this. There is a minimum fee of $15.00 for records of a non-relative request.
"C Betz brings up some resaonable points but I dont think it is ruled out that small arms fire could have hit the right place and brought down the airplane. C Betz input is highly informative and does highly suggest the story is "blurred by time" however couldnt the tilt of the engines intakes and the other characteristics, along with Mr Orchards comment that he is not in combat gear be explained by the fact that these pictures were not at the time but taken shortly afterwards when a front line unit had time to take pictures? IE he came back shortly afterwards but rear echlons had messed with the plane?"
The ME-262 and other exotic weapons were of vital research value to the allies. Special units were dispatched to seize and remove these weapons systems when they were discovered or captured. A rear echelon unit would not "mess" with these unique weapons. Indeed they were to be captured as intact as possible. The Army Air Force utilized the 54th Disarmerment Wing (Watson's Wizzers) specifically for this mission.
The tilt of the engines is the result of lack of stability provided by the nose landing gear and the nose section to the rest of the fuselage, which has been removed; the purpose being to render the airframe unusable since the stress points on the aircraft have now been compromised.
Charles BetzLast edited by C. Betz; 03-12-2009, 12:07 AM.Comment
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Agree!!! I see no reason why an m1 Garand couldnt bring it down and there is the possibility that they hit the pilot and he lowered the gear and was trying to land for medical attention. I would think we would have heard about it before now but just think how many hero's stories went to the grave with the heros. It sucks that we will never know so much of the stories on all sides of outrageous things that happened that are true but no proof.Originally posted by Jean-Loup View PostComment
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