when I got out of the Army, I tossed the IKE jackets & pants- didn;t want a reminder of that place... I think they tossed the prison suits to
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agreed, plus the germans didn't issue washing powder to political prisoners!.Originally posted by colt45s View PostComment
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"when I got out of the Army, I tossed the IKE jackets & pants- didn;t want a reminder of that place... I think they tossed the prison suits to"
"agreed, plus the germans didn't issue washing powder to political prisoners!."
Adam, what does washing powder have to do with anything?
Additionaly, I would be very interested to know what this thread is supposed to be if you believe that "they tossed the prison suits to": http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=310173
"Any Concentration camp items
I will pay top dollar
regards Adam"
How will you pay top dollar for something that was tossed?
It would be nice if on a thread that I spent a lot of time making, and tried to research as much as possible, the answers could show some research as well.
JLLast edited by Jean-Loup; 09-25-2008, 07:10 PM.Comment
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JL,,, You have the fact that he was actually there,,the testimony from family,,a jacket that appears to be authentic style and material,,and now the photo of what I see to be the exact jacket being worn in a period photo.. For me that is 100% provenance! ,,can't imagine what anyone else could want to 'prove' the jacket..
Good work,,Congratulations...
... Take good care of it...,G.
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Here are some more interesting photos of uniforms from dachau. These are in colour and show some of the badges similar to yours.
Go here:
http://www.ushmm.org/research/collec...ph_catalog.php
and put
Alexander Zabin
into the search.
lewisComment
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Yes for items such as camp paper work, pictures, books. thats for your interest mate.Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post
Get a reality check, why do you think there are so few camp guard uniforms and such, because like the prisoners they threw them asap!. If your happy its up to you, keep it.
I meant by washing powder why the hell is it so clean, and why the hell bring it back.
Liberating solider " your free, after our process of getting you back from the brink of starvation, you can now leave please stay a while and fill these displaced persons card in, that could help you find family members and them find you. For these of you who have yet to be de liced. Please remove all clothes and use the showers then we can issue you with some form of new clothing"
The owner of your uniform " Ok I will do all that, but I really like my uniform, infact before I go, can I go and get another jacket, I really like all the lice and dirt, plus they were designed to make us all look like criminals, second class citizen and an in pure race from an ideological political point of view. It gives me a warm feeling to wear it"
Before you say it there wasn't winter and summer jackets, thats laughable.
you have your thoughts I have mine.
I will leave it there
By the way my research is from hours and hours of reading in archieves, journals, primary sources, plus for the next year, I'm going to be soley concentrated on the nuremberg trial and the holocaust.
AdamComment
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"Get a reality check, why do you think there are so few camp guard uniforms and such, because like the prisoners they threw them asap!. If your happy its up to you, keep it."
Adam, before jumping in and poluting this thread with your unfounded (and vulgar) statements, you could do a minimum amount of research; for example simply looking at the period documents I had already posted in this thread.I wont waste time answering all your points, because they are already answered by period documents or people who were there. You are the one needing a reality check; and I have no idea where you could have been doing all the research you talk about, because your opinion is very clearly contradicted by many period documents. Did you even read this whole thread before posting? There is no better blind then the one who doesnt want to see!
Here are two photos already posted in this thread before, and a period account for you:
Below, a tunic being handed over to famous Nice historian Jean-Louis Panicacci, for him to put in the "musée de la résistance azuréenne"; surely he also needs a reality check?Last edited by Jean-Loup; 09-26-2008, 06:46 AM.Comment
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Here is a period witness account, from the book of belgian SS volunteer Henri Philippet, an other man needing a reality check I suspect. He is describing his trip back to Belgium in mai 1945, once the war is over. Translation:
"There are many civilians of all ages and both genders, a few prisonners of war, and a large group of political prisonners in stripped uniforms. A group of them is making the law in the train station. In front of the stunned swiss civil servants, they oblige all the civilians to get into the first train cars, and brutaly forbid them to open the windows"
This is just one of many period accounts I have read describing people in KZ uniforms going back home.Last edited by Jean-Loup; 09-26-2008, 06:29 AM.Comment
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"The owner of your uniform " Ok I will do all that, but I really like my uniform, infact before I go, can I go and get another jacket, I really like all the lice and dirt, plus they were designed to make us all look like criminals, second class citizen and an in pure race from an ideological political point of view. It gives me a warm feeling to wear it""
I dont know Adam, maybe you should ask this man (photo taken in Paris in 1945 if I remember well). From the look on his face it looks like he has already had his reality check...Last edited by Jean-Loup; 09-26-2008, 06:22 AM.Comment
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Lewis, thanks for posting that exelent link. I will post some of the photos from the link, all taken by Alexander Zabin at Dachau, as they show national flags on uniforms, and also clearly show HBT tunics being worn. The HBT tunics appear very clean by the way, to answer Adams questions.
Here a prisonner is wearing a national flag on his clean looking BHT tunic. In the background, men are wearing mixtures of civilian cloths, HBT, and thick cloth stripped uniforms.Last edited by Jean-Loup; 09-26-2008, 06:07 AM.Comment
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Here the man to the left wears Polish national color on his thick material tunic. The man in the center wears an HBT tunic.Last edited by Jean-Loup; 09-27-2008, 05:52 PM.Comment
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Here the man to the left appears to have a small french flag on his civilian cloths.Comment
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This prisonner in the front wears a clean looking HBT tunic, in sharp contrast with the dark thick material tunic in the background.Comment
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Some of the photos in the links show french flags above the barracks, so i presume all the flag badges etc have been added after liberation, from whatever they could find around the place (like yours an SS shield of some sort).
Also people with civilian clothes have 'X' painted on them by the SS to show they are prisoners.Comment
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I have the history of a man whose jacket and pants I now take care of..
He had 2 sets of uniform at Dachau.. One worn most of the time,,and another set he changed into when working in one of the offices where he was in contact with Germans.. Once liberated he went to work for the Americans/British at Dachau. He threw away his daily worn in camp set of clothes and at the office put on his 'work set' He wore that for almost a week until they gave him what looks like a British battle dress, short jacket and pants...
Believe it or not even before the end of the war there were plenty that thought that the world would not believe about the concentration camps. Right at the wars end the Allies tried to get as many troops as possible to see what happened at these camps. To the point of even having small packets of photos of the dead ,ovens etc. printed up in war torn Germany to be assembled into information packets and distributed to troops that could not get to see a camp..
My guy choose to have his good KZ set of clothes washed after he received a few sets of this British dress and kept the uniform and as much as he could over the years about the ordeal he went thru..
No matter where he lived he didn't miss a 'reunion' at Dachau until his death in the 80's..On his tombstone says at the bottom 'I survived Dachau'..I have been put in charge of taking care of these clothes and his photos and other possessions while I live.. they are among the most cherished and personally valued items in my collection and if I can't find a family member or friend I trust to keep the grouping together when its my time I'll donate the group to the D.C. museum.....
*While its mostly true that inmates were required to get rid of their camp uniforms many still wore them months after being liberated while in DP camps.. There are those that chose to hold on to their uniforms, those that knew there would be those in the future that didn't believe such a thing could happen , that would deny the whole thing.. Thank God these artifacts survived too and will survived long after their original owners are long gone. With first hand recorded testomony, history, and these artifacts it keeps the deniers at bay......
*JL, its a great piece of history you have there no matter what anyone says.. This is some of the real history of WW2, not some dagger or insignia pulled off the shelves of a depot! Good going and I know you'll be taking good care of it..Congrats again..,G.Comment
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